My Lords, I am neither a landlord nor a tenant, I have managed properties in the past and I have a property qualification. All four of my children were tenants during their student days and remain as tenants at the start of their professional lives. I have also had extensive briefings from both landlords and tenants and their respective representative bodies, providing their perspectives and their chosen statistics.

As the last Back-Bench speaker today, I will not re-run all the statistics because most of them have already been cited, so I hope that will be appreciated. I am also not going to namecheck everybody, but we have had, I think we can agree, a diverse but fascinating set of speeches. I congratulate all those involved—forgive me if I do not namecheck them.

There are some emotive issues here. For a tenant, the property they rent may become emotionally their home. For the landlord, the property is often their most valuable asset—they paid for it and they maintain it.

It is their source of income or pension, and renting it out also means taking on costs, regulations and the risks of placing it into the hands of strangers. Into this sensitive environment have come terms such as “no-fault evictions” and “kicking people out on the street”, even stating paradoxically that landlords actually create homelessness. There have been distressing anecdotes—and I underline this—from both tenants and landlords.

In recent days I have heard a good deal of pantomime stereotypes, and I really hope we can set these aside and address the underlying issues. There certainly are some rogue landlords—albeit that the Government assure us they are a small minority—who provide substandard accommodation and treat their tenants badly. I support those aspects of the Bill that are helpful in addressing that minority. But I add a note of caution, as others have, about enforcement.

The Bill will not touch the rogues unless it is enforced vigorously against some nasty, elusive and, in some cases, dangerous people. The Minister, in very kindly meeting me with her officials yesterday, for which I thank her again, advised that fines levied by local authorities would fund enforcement. I remain sceptical, not least because local authorities are already so strapped for cash. I welcome the requirement to have a written agreement; I suggest that it should automatically include, as an annexe, an inventory of contents and condition, as the lack of one of these frequently leads to disputes later on. I also support the register portal idea, provided that it is better than the Companies House register, which we discussed in some detail during the economic crime Bill and where there are many companies registered to an “M. Mouse”, et cetera.

In acknowledging that there are bad landlords, however, we should also accept that there are bad tenants who will play the system and abuse the landlord-tenant relationship. There are also market and other factors beyond the control of landlords and tenants. The underlying issue is a simple one that many speakers have addressed: lack of supply. A recent debate in this House referred to a shortfall of more than 1 million homes and many speakers have also touched on this today. Private landlords were encouraged, in particular under the Housing Act 1988, to reduce this gap between supply and demand but the difference between them remains stark. The Bill is presented as achieving a better deal for tenants, not through increasing the supply but rather by altering the landlord-tenant relationship, primarily perhaps by reducing the rights of landlords. It begs a simple but fundamental question to the Minister: will the Bill lead to an increase in the supply of rental accommodation?

Section 21 notices are at the heart of the debate around the Bill. Introduced as an incentive for the provision of accommodation by private landlords, they have enabled an increase in the private rented sector, as many speakers have covered. This is based largely on landlords having the confidence that they could recover their property when they required to do so. To lose sight of this confidence—the understanding that, even if they never use it, landlords know that they can get their property back through serving a notice—is to put the sustained supply of rental accommodation at risk.

Tenant representative bodies tag these notices as no-fault evictions, but we should also remember that tenants can and do—to coin a phrase—make no-fault departures should they, without needing to give any reason, decide to move out on just one or two months’ notice. This leaves the landlord with costs and no income until a new tenant is in place, and quite possibly a lengthy overhanging dispute; for example, about the deposits of tenants who are now departed and possibly even out of the country. The Bill would mean that tenants can leave on short notice and without a reason, while landlords would be able to recover what is, after all, their property only on limited and specific grounds. That does not feel equitable to me.

An underlying concern for tenant representatives about Section 21 is that once the initial tenancy period—a security that the Bill seeks to reduce or remove, as others have said—is over, a Section 21 notice can be used should the landlord want their property back. In some cases, it is to seek—or, if noble Lords wish to use emotive language, to extort—an increased level of rent. As regards wanting their property back, the landlord can do so, and the Bill reasonably supports this, if they wish to sell the property or make it available for a family member. As regards raising the rent, I believe there is a point here. I would support rental movements being limited to inflationary increases but, again, supply and demand are relevant. A landlord cannot expect to succeed in renting out a property for more than the market rent. To bring the rate down, we need more supply rather than fewer landlords.

The underlying concern for landlords, apart from the psychological aspect of restriction on their ownership rights, is that to recover their property is going to mean going to court. It has been put to me that a landlord would perhaps have to go to court anyway, if a tenant refused to leave under the current Section 21 notice provisions. I contest that: given the clear simplicity of the Section 21 notice, the great majority of tenants accept its validity.

Speaking to landlords in recent months, I have learned about a couple of reality checks that we need to think about. First, Section 21 notices are already being served by landlords who want to get their properties back and avoid the drawn-out, adversarial and expensive legal processes in due course to recover their property. Secondly, landlords are becoming far more risk averse, and tell me they will continue to be, as to which people they might rent to. As one landlord put it to me starkly, “After this Bill, I will never rent to a family again”.

Speaking to those who say that they represent tenants, I have been struck by how sanguine they seem to be about the impact of the Bill on rental accommodation. They tell me that they assume landlords will sell up, perhaps to a first-time buyer, a local authority or another private landlord—although that seems a circular expectation. Not only is this dismissive of those who provide rental accommodation, it is a pure gamble. Depending on which statistics you choose, some say that there will be a decrease in rental accommodation—this is borne out by the discussions I have just referred to—and others say that there will be no impact. I find that hard to believe. In any event,

no one is saying that there will be any increase in the availability of rental property, which is what we are all seeking to achieve.

Given the risks and costs involved for landlords by the removal of Section 21, what mitigation does the Bill provide? It has a, yet to be created, swift and fair court system, which is perhaps even cost-free. There seems to be no objective metric, as many have mentioned, for the Lord Chancellor to deem that the county courts will be working sufficiently well. I hope that we can address this in later stages of the Bill. Court hearings on property matters are already increasing. By definition, a great increase in such cases will be inevitable as all tenancies are now being ended under Section 8. These will be cases brought by tenants and by landlords.

This swift judicial process is a fantasy, and it is strictly for the birds. Speaking of birds, it was the noble Lord, Lord Bird, who warned us some months ago that the last time the Government meddled with the rental sector the supply shrank. I think the noble Lord, Lord Bird, knows more than many in this House about homelessness. In short, making responsible landlords recover their property via legal action will reverse the expansion of rental accommodation, and rogue landlords will probably continue to enforce their will via less formal methods.

I turn to the question of initial fixed terms. We are told that tenants need security of tenure so that they can put their children into school, develop a sense of community and hold down a local job—all of which makes complete sense, at least in some cases. But its logic must surely therefore support long initial terms, and not their abandonment by making them legally void beyond six months, as the Bill does. Tenants and landlords can both benefit from longer fixed terms. Both get continuity, less frictional cost and less disruption. Tenants will also benefit where landlords offer rental discounts or property enhancements to tenants wishing to enter longer-term agreements. I have seen that in practice.

I was struck by the repeated comments on this from tenants. One simply said to me: “There is absolutely no way I would be willing to sign up for less than a one-year fixed initial term. I do not want the prospect of having at last found a place I can afford and having to move on in a shorter period than that”. A tenant such as this—there are many—who wants to be sure that they have security for longer than six months is prevented by the Bill from obtaining it. The circumstances in which the landlord can remove them—to sell the property or provide it to a family member—would be limited, but beyond six months the tenant has no protection should the landlord serve a notice to that effect. The problem presented to me is that a tenant may get “trapped”—this has been referred to by some speakers—for a fixed initial period in a property that is not what they were led to believe.

I do see that issue, but two points occur to me. First, this is a caveat to both parties when signing up. After all, the landlord may find themselves trapped with a bad tenant. Secondly, a correctly drafted tenancy document provides for either party to quit in the event of contract breaches by the other. A long agreed fixed term is still escapable—if that is the right word. A system

where tenant and landlord lose the ability to agree a tenancy for any period over six months of secure occupancy seems perverse. It is a further disincentive to the supply of accommodation.

Landlords face the risk of tenants changing every few months, with the associated costs and delays of repair, redecoration, reletting and disputes over deposits. I have not mentioned tenants bringing in livestock, but this could also be a feature if they are seeking insurance payments for damage by the tenants’ assorted livestock, which landlords would not now be able to refuse to allow to be kept on the property. In that situation, landlords would probably have to seek higher rents to cover the associated costs of tenant turnover.

However superficially well intentioned the Bill is, it satisfies neither tenants nor landlords. Both need certainty —certainty of tenure balanced with certainty of recovery—but none of this is attainable without certainty of supply, which is the core issue that we must return to. Although the elements of the Bill that deal with standards of accommodation and portal registration are largely to be welcomed, its approach to landlord and tenant relationships will deplete supply and exacerbate the problems that it seeks to solve. I am most grateful for noble Lords’ indulging me going on at such length.

7.25 pm

Lord Cromwell

My Lords, I speak to Amendments 293 and 294 from the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, Amendment 295 proposed by my noble friend Lady Jones and Amendments 295A to 295F, also in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones.

Those noble Lords who are avid followers of my social media feeds will know that I am an advocate of technology. Advanced computing power and artificial intelligence offer enormous opportunities, which are not all that bad. However, the intentions of those who use them can be malign or criminal, and the speed of technological developments is outpacing legislators

around the world. We are constantly in danger of creating laws that close the stable door long after the virtual horse has bolted.

The remarkable progress of visual and audio technology has its roots in the entertainment industry. It has been used to complete or reshoot scenes in films in the event of actors being unavailable, or in some cases, when actors died before filming was completed. It has also enabled filmmakers to introduce characters, or younger versions of iconic heroes for sequels or prequels in movie franchises. This enabled us to see a resurrected Sir Alec Guinness and a younger version of Luke Skywalker, or a de-aged Indiana Jones, on our screens.

The technology that can do this is only around 15 years old, and until about five years ago it required extremely powerful computers, expensive resources and advanced technical expertise. The first malicious use of deepfakes occurred when famous actors and celebrities, mainly and usually women, had their faces superimposed on to bodies of participants in pornographic videos. These were then marketed online as Hollywood stars’ sex tapes or similar, making money for the producers while causing enormous distress to the women targeted. More powerful computer processors inevitably mean that what was once very expensive rapidly becomes much cheaper very quickly. An additional factor has turbo-boosted this issue: generative AI. Computers can now learn to create images, sound and video movement almost independently of software specialists. It is no longer just famous women who are the targets of sexually explicit deepfakes; it could be anyone.

Amendment 293 directly addresses this horrendous practice, and I hope that there will be widespread support for it. In an increasingly digital world, we spend more time in front of our screens, getting information and entertainment on our phones, laptops, iPads and smart TVs. What was once an expensive technology, used to titillate, entertain or for comedic purposes, has developed an altogether darker presence, well beyond the reach of most legislation.

In additional to explicit sexual images, deepfakes are known to have been used to embarrass individuals, misrepresent public figures, enable fraud, manipulate public opinion and influence democratic political elections and referendums. This damages people individually: those whose images or voices are faked, and those who are taken in by the deepfakes. Trusted public figures, celebrities or spokespeople face reputational and financial damage when their voices or images are used to endorse fake products or for harvesting data. Those who are encouraged to click through are at risk of losing money to fraudsters, being targeted for scams, or having their personal and financial data leaked or sold on. There is growing evidence that information used under false pretences can be used for profiling in co-ordinated misinformation campaigns, for darker financial purposes or political exploitation.

In passing, it is worth remembering that deepfakes are not always images of people. Last year, crudely generated fake images of an explosion, purported to be at the Pentagon, caused the Dow Jones industrial average to drop 85 points within four minutes of the image being published, and triggered emergency response

procedures from local law enforcement before it was debunked 20 minutes later. The power of a single image, carefully placed and virally spreading, shows the enormous and rapid economic damage that deepfakes can create.

Amendment 294 would make it an offence for a person to generate a deepfake for the purpose of committing fraud, and Amendment 295 would make it an offence to create deepfakes of political figures, particularly when they risk undermining electoral integrity. We support all the additional provisions in this group of amendments; Amendments 295A to 295F outline the requirements, duties and definitions necessary to ensure that those creating deepfakes can be prosecuted.

I bring to your Lordships’ attention the wording of Amendment 295, which, as well as making it an offence to create a deepfake, goes a little further. It also makes it an offence to send a communication which has been created by artificial intelligence and which is intended to create the impression that a political figure has said or done something that is not based in fact. This touches on what I believe to be a much more alarming aspect of deepfakes: the manner in which false information is distributed.

8 pm

We are seeing an endless cat and mouse game of systems being used to create and distribute these images, learning from those designed to detect and block them. Currently, we are largely unprotected from the broader societal threats from deepfakes, the risks to which we have already been exposed. They have already had a malign influence in polarising political debate.

There have been and continue to be co-ordinated efforts by organisations and foreign states to exert influence over democratic elections and referendums in the world’s largest and most technologically advanced democracies. This year will see elections in India, the USA, the EU and, almost certainly, the United Kingdom. Almost half the world’s population will have a vote this year, the most in human history. However, in this brave new world, international espionage security services are fighting an almost invisible hydra: a multi-headed enemy endlessly growing new appendages to replace those that have been cut off when discovered. Can the Minister say what assessments have been made so far of such deepfakes and what steps are the Government taking to stop our elections being rigged?

I feel that we need to focus far more on how deepfakes are used and distributed. Networks have been developed that are co-ordinated and extremely effective, involving many bots and humans, sometimes malicious, sometimes misguided and sometimes well-meaning but misinformed. Stemming the flood of deepfakes by prosecuting those who create them may not be enough if the networks which distribute them transform the misinformation into a tsunami. They could sweep across democracies, overwhelm legislation and wash away all the safeguards of the political and economic systems upon which we rely to keep us safe.

We must take the issue of deepfakes seriously. If we sleepwalk and take our eyes off the ball, deepfakes will scramble our sense of true and false. I look forward to the Minister’s response.

Lord Leong

This POSTnote summarises associations between diet, nutrition and cancer. It describes the dietary and nutritional factors associated with cancer risk, and interventions for cancer prevention.

Can I convey the extreme irritation of two parishes in my constituency that have had five locations for a mobile phone mast turned down? Given that mobile connectivity is now an essential requirement, is it not time that local authorities advised on which technically feasible locations they would be prepared to grant planning permission? Local people could then say where they were happiest for such projects to go, and we would end this stupid cat-and-mouse game that wastes time and means people do not get the connectivity they need.

Andrew Selous

Recent developments in the Horn of Africa and current challenges: conflict, shifting political allegiances, and hunger

My Lords, I declare non-financial interests as a patron of Hong Kong Watch and vice-chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Uyghurs. As my noble friend Lord Fox referred to the sanctions imposed on seven parliamentarians, three years ago yesterday, I should declare that I am one of them. He also said that this should be regarded as a badge of honour; indeed, because my family were sanctioned with me, my feisty daughter set up a WhatsApp group entitled “badge of honour”.

The noble Baroness, Lady Chapman, raised the belt and road initiative and the role of the Foreign Secretary. I have one point to make about that. Developing countries, mainly in the global South, now have debts to the belt and road initiative totalling $1 trillion. This has made them extraordinarily subservient and often into vassal states that do the bidding of the Chinese Communist Party, particularly in the United Nations. I think the noble Baroness was right to raise the issue of Sri Lanka particularly; it requires greater scrutiny.

The biggest issue that the Intelligence and Security Committee pointed to in its much-delayed report, when it was finally published, was the potential for gullibility on the part of the present Foreign Secretary, but the rest of us too. I put it to the Minister that with a multi-billion-pound trade deficit with China, we are insufficiently resilient and have become far too dependent. This is extraordinarily complacent in the circumstances.

Is she surprised that her right honourable friend Sir Iain Duncan Smith said yesterday that the right honourable Oliver Dowden’s Statement was

“an elephant giving birth to a mouse”?—[Official Report, Commons, 25/3/24; col 1266.]

The Deputy Prime Minister said it had been “swift and robust”, yet it is three years since these cyberattacks took place. That hardly makes it swift. As for robust, while parliamentarians have been sanctioned, frankly I regard that as a very minor issue in comparison with what has happened in Xinjiang, where there are 1 million Uighurs incarcerated in camps; with the destruction of democracy in Hong Kong, where there are 1,700 people incarcerated, some of them, such as Jimmy Lai, on trial even as we meet; and with the untold brutality we have seen in Tibet and the daily intimidation of Taiwan. In those circumstances, there are no grounds for being complacent.

In being robust, why is it that no public official in Hong Kong has yet been sanctioned, yet our ally the United States has sanctioned 47? What co-operation do we have with our key allies, including examining the extent of the APT31 attacks, which have been estimated in the United States as being far more significant in their magnitude than they have been here? Will the Minister re-examine the 2023 report of the Intelligence and Security Committee on the dangers posed to the United Kingdom by the CCP regime? Will she re-examine the strategic failure to declare China a threat, which was, after all, one of the recommendations of your Lordships’ International Relations and Defence Committee, on which I served, which examined the question of China trade and security? Will we place China in the enhanced tier of the foreign registration scheme?

The Minister has mentioned Hikvision, and I pay tribute to her for the way in which she interacted when that issue was before the House as we considered the Procurement Bill; she was helpful throughout. What progress has been made in removing Hikvision surveillance cameras, of which there are about 1 million in this country, from sensitive sites? The Deputy Prime Minister said yesterday that he was open to the removal of Hikvision cameras from other sites too; what progress is being made in that regard?

The noble Lord, Lord Fox, mentioned electric cars. There was a very disturbing article in the Telegraph a few days ago about how these cars could be used for surveillance purposes. Will we allow slave labour to again be used in Xinjiang to manufacture parts and cars that can be sold cheaply into our markets while we do not give British workers the chance to manufacture such things here? Will we have to act retrospectively—as we did with Hikvision and Huawei, and now in the future will probably have to do with electric cars? Is this not just another case of closing the gate after the horse has bolted?

Lord Alton of Liverpool

Tomorrow, it will be three years since parliamentarians here were sanctioned; your defence of us, Mr Speaker, has been remarkable. Although I welcome the two sanctions from the Government, it is a little bit like an elephant giving birth to a mouse. The reality is that in those three years the Chinese have trashed the Sino-British agreement and been committing murder, slave labour and genocide in Xinjiang. We have had broken churches, and, in Hong Kong, false court cases against Jimmy Lai. My question is: why two? America has sanctioned more than 40 people in Hong Kong; we have sanctioned none, and only three lowly officials in Xinjiang. Surely the integrated review should be changed. China is not an epoch-defining challenge, strange as

that may be, but it is surely a threat. Can the Government now correct that, so that we all know where we are with China?

Iain Duncan Smith

This POSTnote summarises the emerging technology of human stem cell-based embryo models, discussions around their regulation and their wider ethical and societal implications. It introduces the scientific background and the potential applications of the models, outlines the challenges and opportunities in introducing their regulation and discusses stakeholder initiatives to address regulatory gaps.

I beg to move,

That this House has considered e-petitions 633591 and 645885 relating to animal testing and non-animal research methods.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Dame Caroline. On behalf of the Petitions Committee, I would like to introduce two petitions dealing with legislation on animal testing and the promotion of non-animal research methods. I stress that we are here once again—this is becoming an annual debate. That demonstrates the strength of feeling of our constituents and of people across the UK, a nation of animal lovers, that these procedures and processes really must start being brought to an end.

I will start by reading the prayers of the petitions. The first, e-petition 633591, advocates for the ending of animal toxicity tests and the prioritisation of non-animal methods, or NAMs. The petition was started by Maria and closed in September 2023 with 109,378 signatures, including 233 from my Carshalton and Wallington constituency. It argues that NAMs are

“more predictive of human biology, more economically advantageous,”

and prevent animal suffering. E-petition 645885 calls for the banning of the use of dogs for testing and research, citing their cognitive abilities and emotional range. The petition was started by singer-songwriter and actor Will Young, who I am delighted to see in the Public Gallery today. As of now, it has over 30,000 signatures, including 35 from Carshalton and Wallington.

Let me begin with a bit of background information. Animal testing is covered by the Animals (Scientific Procedures) Act 1986, which was amended in 2012 to include cephalopods as protected animals. Regulated procedures include acts that may cause pain, suffering, distress or lasting harm to animals. Animal testing is often cited by some in the industry as being necessary for various purposes, including drug development, veterinary medicines, and chemical or environmental safety testing. However, we have already made movements away from it, for example in the 1998 ban on testing of beauty products and cosmetics, and in a recent written answer, the Government confirmed that there are no laws mandating its use. Nevertheless, we are still in a very challenging situation, and these practices continue.

I want to reiterate some of the data that we spoke about last year. In 2021, over 3 million scientific procedures were conducted on animals. If that number were not bad enough, that was actually an increase on previous years—an increase in the use of dogs by 3%, of cats by 6%, of horses by 29% and of monkeys by 17%. We can only speculate why the number increased, but that certainly does not tie in with the messages we hear that the use of NAMs is on the up and the use of animals on the down.

The issue is not just that these procedures are happening to animals, but the awful conditions that animals are often kept in while waiting for procedures to be done to them. A recent report from the Animals in Science Regulation Unit described “deeply troubling” animal welfare standards in British laboratories between 2019 and 2021. I am sure that many of us will have received emails containing pictures and videos of some of those procedures. I have seen some pretty awful things that are happening to animals here in the UK, despite the industry telling us that it upholds the highest possible animal welfare standards. Failings include a non-human primate dying after becoming trapped behind a restraint device; 112 rats being crushed alive when they were moved in error to a compactor; and numerous incidents of animals being left without water or food.

As I said, the UK purports to be a nation of animal lovers, and I truly believe that it is, but we need to ensure that we update our laws to truly reflect that fact. I acknowledge that efforts are being made to promote NAMs—including cell cultures, human tissues, computer modelling and volunteer studies—and that organisations are trying to invest in and improve the use of NAMs to reduce reliance on animal testing. However, I want to pay particular attention to the second of the two petitions that we are debating, which relates specifically to dogs.

Dogs are most commonly used in secondary species testing. That is where a test on an animal, normally a mouse or rat, has already been conducted but some researchers go on to conduct a secondary test on a different species, and dogs are commonly cited as animals used for that. However, the industry itself says that that is almost completely unnecessary now. Companies such as Pfizer and AstraZeneca have stood up at global health forums and said, “We don’t want to do secondary species testing any more. Please help us find the road map to get us out of the need to do this.”

Elliot Colburn

That is part of the problem. I am sure that the Minister has a busy diary, and there is an argument that the issue falls partly on the Science Department and partly on the Home Office. At the moment, the unit that processes the licences sits in the Home Office but, as I will say later, there is a strong case for a machinery of government change that relieves the Home Office of that burden, which it is not really qualified to carry out, and transfers it to a Department

such as DEFRA, where there are vets and where the legislation can be treated, rightly, as a piece of animal welfare legislation, rather than a piece of scientific licensing.

I want to explain why we have this problem. Three types of licence are needed to carry out these scientific procedures. An individual has to have a licence, and there is a licence on the establishment, which is fairly uncontroversial. The difficulty comes with the project licences. Universities and research institutions have internal animal welfare and ethics boards, which assess applications before they go to the Home Office. But how hard do they challenge requests from academics working in their institutions? Perhaps they occasionally ask a few questions and challenge a bit, but it appears that they, effectively, defer to the judgment of the academics who put in the requests, and the academics then agree. The ethics board agrees to the application, which is then submitted to the Home Office.

Let us bear in mind that the team in the Home Office have to process around 4,000 project licences a year. They are overworked and stretched. They will see that an ethics board, with professors and people with “Dr” in front of their names, has assessed that the project is necessary. They will defer to the scientific knowledge of those boards—and perhaps wrongly so. Although scientists are qualified to give good technical analysis, they are not, by and large, qualified to make good decisions, least of all when it comes to decisions relating to policies underpinned by laws made in this House. Only the civil service, backed up by Ministers, can make those kinds of decisions.

I suspect that there is, in the Home Office, a large degree of deference, which is possibly misplaced, to those animal welfare and ethics boards. That is why the Home Office almost never refuses a licence. I understand that, in response to parliamentary questions on this issue, Home Office Ministers will say, “You cannot really judge the fact that we have not refused a licence as evidence that we are not applying ourselves with voracity to this task, because we will often question things and send applications back for further consideration.” I completely understand that, and it is a fair point, but we have over 4,000 project applications a year. Are we really saying that the Home Office might not judge it appropriate to refuse even one in order to create some boundaries and parameters and to inject some vigour and rigour into the system?

A further cultural problem stems from the MHRA, which regulates medicinal and pharmaceutical products in the UK. Although it has confirmed that it does not require animal testing, and that it is open to individual companies and research establishments to decide what type of research they need, a perception exists within industry and academia that experiments carried out using live animals have greater credibility and acceptability. A clear statement from the MHRA that it is not neutral or indifferent, but will take a dim view of products brought before it that have used animal experiments when they might not have been necessary, would sharpen the process and focus minds as to the need for using animal experiments.

How can we get to a position in which the three Rs are being applied as the original Act intended? One of the petitions calls for more funding for non-animal methods. In the UK, we are blessed with some of the world’s best researchers in this area. The Blizard Institute at Queen

Mary University of London, which I visited a few months ago, hosts an animal replacement centre of excellence. It is doing some extraordinary work on organ-on-chip and bioprinting. In dermatological research in particular, there is now no doubt that such non-animal methods are far superior to using live animals.

I have a probing proposal for the Minister. As a way to raise money, sharpen the incentives in the current system and get the three Rs enforced, I propose that we consider applying a levy on the use of each individual animal in testing, as part of the project licence. In some ways, it feels quite incongruous to have to put a monetary value on the life of a mouse to get people to take it seriously, but if researchers are not taking the intrinsic value of that mouse’s life as seriously as they should, let us consider some other incentives that might reinforce the original three Rs. Let us consider applying a project licence levy of £100 or £200 for each mouse used, and see whether that focuses minds on the animal welfare and ethics committees. Let us see if it makes them think twice before saying that they need 100 mice for something when they could do it with less. We should consider something like that. The other advantage of a levy is that we could ringfence all its proceeds and put them directly into research on non-animal methods. That is my suggestion to the Minister.

I was a Minister myself for nine years, and I know that it is very easy for people to call for more money for things, but it is not straightforward to be the Minister who has to go to the Treasury and say, “By the way, we’d like just a little bit more money for this one thing that is quite important.” Traditionally, 20 years ago, the Treasury did not like levies and saw them as a hypothecated tax, but we are in different territory post the financial crisis and the many other problems since then. I am sure that if the Minister went to the Treasury and said that he was going to apply a levy of £200 per mouse used in experiments, the faces in the Treasury would light up. They would see the potential to do something useful with that.

Finally, where should responsibility reside for the 1986 Act and the policy under it? I know that that discussion is ongoing within the Government. My view is that the Home Office is a very busy Department and has a huge amount to contend with, and it is very unlikely that its Ministers would be able to give this issue the attention that it deserves. The right thing would be to make a machinery-of-government change transferring full responsibility for animal testing, the 1986 Act and the regulatory regime under it to DEFRA, which has the vets, the scientists and people who would approach this issue as an animal welfare issue. Equally, it has people who understand the importance of science. As our vets have proven on multiple occasions, they are not squeamish about these matters: they will take difficult decisions if need be. Most importantly of all, if the policy were within DEFRA, veterinary science could challenge medical science. Often, we find in veterinary science a better understanding of vaccinations, epidemiology and medicines, with a body of technical expertise that can challenge the medical expertise sitting in other Departments. That is why I think that such a machinery-of-government change should take place.

I hope that the Minister will look favourably on some of those suggestions. I appreciate that it is very unlikely that he could bring forward a levy that might sharpen

the implementation of the three Rs between now and the general election, but all parties will be able to think about these issues as they draft their manifestos for the general election ahead.

5.5 pm

George Eustice

It is a real pleasure to serve under your chairship, Dame Caroline.

I acknowledge the strength of public feeling about animal testing. Together, the petitions that we are debating today received more than 140,000 signatures, including 114 in Newcastle upon Tyne Central. I thank everyone who signed the petitions for bringing these important issues to be debated in Parliament once again. The petitioners are calling for an end to the use of dogs in testing and research in the UK, an end to the use of animals in toxicity testing, and the prioritisation of non-animal methods, which are key issues.

I congratulate the hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Elliot Colburn) on his expert introduction to the debate, and all those who have made speeches or intervened. All the contributions have been very well informed and thoughtful.

As the Opposition spokesperson in the debate, I state clearly and emphasise that the Labour party believes that the unnecessary suffering of defenceless animals is unequivocally wrong. The Labour party was founded to support the rights of working people, and I believe strongly that human rights and animal rights are intrinsically linked. Those who are cruel to animals or ignore their rights often do the same to humans, so recognising and standing up for the rights of animals is an important part of Labour’s record. From the Hunting Act 2004, which banned the cruel practice of hunting with dogs, to the Animal Welfare Act 2006, which put in place strong domestic protections for pets, livestock and wild animals, we have used the power of Government to protect animals. We introduced the offence of causing unnecessary suffering, mutilation and animal fighting, and we banned the testing of cosmetic products on animals in 1998. The last Labour Government had a record to be proud of and, if we are privileged to form the next Government, we will build on that legacy.

The British people expect nothing less because, as Members have pointed out, we are a nation of animal lovers. As the hon. Member for Bath (Wera Hobhouse) said, the RSPCA was founded in 1824—60 years before the founding of the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children. I do not think that reflects a hierarchy of concern, but it does reflect the extent to

which we are concerned about the welfare of animals, and it is no wonder. Animals improve the welfare of humans in many ways, ranging from providing companionship and improving mental health, to facilitating rescues during natural disasters. Animals serve as the best companions, offering emotional support and reducing feelings of loneliness. Domesticated animals can help people to recover from severe illnesses, and they help us in speech therapy, occupational therapy and further physical rehabilitation.

On Thursday, I visited St Paul’s CofE Primary School in Elswick, Newcastle. I asked them what they wanted from Parliament, and top of the list was an end to food poverty and a support dog. Animal welfare and the love of animals are at the heart of British society and culture. As the shadow Minister for science, research and innovation, my priority is to enable the best possible science in this country, which will deliver the best possible outcomes for people across the UK, people across the world and, I believe, animals as well.

Since the introduction of the Animals (Scientific Procedures) Act 1986, animal testing practices have improved. The three Rs—replacement, reduction and refinement—have already been mentioned, and they remain worthy principles. As the right hon. Member for Camborne and Redruth (George Eustice) emphasised, however, many people are rightly distressed and concerned by the scale and, at times, severity of animal testing. Over 1.5 million experimental procedures involving animals were carried out in 2022; 4% of those were assessed as non-recovery—that is to say, the animal died—and almost 4% again were classed as severe.

There are real reasons to foresee a better future. We are in the midst of a scientific and technological revolution that is transforming the economy, society and the conduct of science itself. Non-animal or new approach methods—NAMs—for scientific research are developing at great pace, enabled by advances in artificial intelligence and engineering biology. It is true that there are currently limits to the efficacy of NAMs, but that is becoming less true with each passing year and, as has been pointed out during the debate, there are clear limits to the efficacy of animal testing. Cell cultures, advanced modelling and donor tissues are already helping to reduce the use of animals in testing. In cosmetics, we have seen great success in using NAMs to predict skin sensitisation. A 2018 study found that they were even better than the once-standard mouse test.

One of the petitions calls for an end to the use of dogs in testing. Dogs currently cannot be used in testing if any other species could be used, but in 2022 4,122 dogs were experimented on. I thank the 31,350 people who signed the petition, including 18 of my constituents in Newcastle upon Tyne Central. The other petition calls for an end to toxicity testing in favour of NAMs, and I thank the 109,378 people, including 96 of my constituents, who signed it. The two petitions naturally overlap. For example, beagles are used for toxicity testing; they are injected, fed poisonous chemicals and asphyxiated in their numbers. It is impossible not to feel for these animals.

At the same time, we must recognise that advocates of that type of testing will argue that it is necessary to save human lives, as the hon. Member for Chatham and Aylesford (Tracey Crouch) highlighted so powerfully.

Chi Onwurah

A Westminster Hall debate has been scheduled for 19 February on e-petitions relating to animal testing and non-animal research methods. The subject for this debate has been chosen by the Petitions Commitee, and the debate will be opened by Elliot Colburn MP.

To ask His Majesty's Government what steps they are taking to expedite the delivery of the apex goal set out in the Executive Summary of the Environmental Improvement Plan 2023 to halt the decline in biodiversity and achieve 'thriving plants and wildlife'.

Lord Randall of Uxbridge

We are committed to meeting our ambitious target to halt and then reverse species decline and are accelerating action towards delivery.

In June last year we launched a multi-million-pound Species Survival Fund to provide early progress towards our species abundance targets and support the recovery of declining species. The fund will support projects focussed on the creation and restoration of wildlife-rich habitats, including on protected sites.

Through Natural England’s Species Recovery Programme Capital Grant Scheme, launched April 2023, we have also provided £14.5M of funding for 63 projects delivered in partnership with 74 different organisations to take action to halt and reverse the decline of 150 rare species, including the critically endangered European eel and the Greater Mouse-eared bat.

In November we announced the 34 projects selected for the £25 million second round of our Landscape Recovery scheme. These projects will collectively restore more than 35,000 hectares of peatland, sustainably manage more than 20,000 hectares of woodland, including some temperate rainforest, create over 7,000 hectares of new woodland and benefit more than 160 protected sites (SSSIs). This builds on the success of the first 22 Landscape Recovery projects which are already underway, aiming to restore more than 600 km of rivers and targeting the conservation of more than 260 flagship species. This is alongside increased incentives, announced in January, for farmers to deliver environmental outcomes which will support habitats and species through our Sustainable Farming Incentive and Countryside Stewardship schemes.

We are also rolling out Nature Recovery Projects across the country to create improved and better-connected habitats for wildlife and improve public access to nature. In July 2023 we launched a further six projects covering over 176,000 ha of land across England. These projects build on the G7 legacy project in Cornwall launched in 2021 and the five other nature recovery projects launched in 2022 which together span around 120,200 hectares.

Lord Benyon

That this House notes and celebrates the 265th anniversary of the birth of Robert (Rabbie) Burns, Scotland’s national bard, in Alloway on the 25 January 1759, regarded as a pioneer of the Romantic literacy movement, and after his death became a great source of inspiration to the founders of both liberalism and socialism, a cultural icon in Scotland and among the Scottish diaspora, a poet and lyricist who penned the words of Auld Lang Syne, which is sung across the globe on New Year’s Eve, and wrote other poems and songs including Tam O’Shanter, Ae Fond Kiss, To a Mouse, Scots Wa Hae, A Red, Red Rose and A Man’s a Man for A’ That, and whose work has been translated into more than 40 languages and his memory honoured by more than over 50 official statues including in the United Kingdom, United States, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Russia and Estonia, has had his image portrayed on postage stamps, banknotes and coins in a number of countries and whose life, works and immortal memory are celebrated at Burn’s Suppers across the world by millions of people on 25 January every year.

Allan Dorans

To ask the hon. Member for Broxbourne, representing the House of Commons Commission, how much was spent on pest control on the parliamentary estate in each of the last three years.

Sarah Olney

The table below details how much has been spent on pest control on the Parliamentary Estate in each of the last three financial years.

The table below details the high-level categories for pest controls in the past year.

*The difference in total number of cases from the answer to UIN 7214, tabled on 15 December 2023 results from the answers covering slightly different reporting periods.

Charles Walker

To ask the hon. Member for Broxbourne, representing the House of Commons Commission, pursuant to the Answer of 8 January 2024 to Question 7214 on House of Commons: Pest Control, if he will publish the reasons for each request for pest control in the last year.

Sarah Olney

The table below details how much has been spent on pest control on the Parliamentary Estate in each of the last three financial years.

The table below details the high-level categories for pest controls in the past year.

*The difference in total number of cases from the answer to UIN 7214, tabled on 15 December 2023 results from the answers covering slightly different reporting periods.

Charles Walker

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. Support is needed particularly for small businesses who may struggle to understand and source what is required to support people, and to have the confidence to do so and the understanding that it is a positive investment in their workforce. He makes a really important point. I am also very glad that he cited the scale of the issue in Northern Ireland. One in four is incredibly high, so we need a focused response as a matter of urgency, and I thank him for that point.

There should be absolutely no stigma around having an MSK condition, nor for asking for help in relation to it. For example, in an office environment, it should be common practice that employees are made to feel comfortable in speaking up if they face issues, and that adjustments and equipment such as sit-stand desks, voice recognition software, a vertical mouse, split keyboards and other ergonomic computer equipment are made available to people if that would support their MSK health.

The strategy to which I have referred should be launched alongside a large public awareness campaign so that everyone can be involved and benefit. The Access to Work scheme provides important support for people who are disabled or have a health condition that impacts on their ability to get work or stay in work, but it seems that not nearly enough people know about it.

There has been much evidence to suggest that many people who could benefit from the scheme do not know that it exists. Indeed, I have heard it referred to as the Government’s best-kept secret. In 2021-22, only around one in eight—just over 4500 people—who received support from Access to Work had an MSK condition. The Work and Pensions Committee has highlighted that the application process can be complex and difficult for people to navigate. We therefore need a much greater effort from the Government to raise awareness of the scheme and the benefits that it can bring.

For example, the Government could make it a legal requirement for all employers to inform new and existing employees about Access to Work and to provide a point of contact for any employee who thinks they might benefit from it. This would highlight and promote the scheme, and it would give the opportunity for expertise to be developed within workplaces to support MSK health.

The Government must also give thought to the fact that over 7 million adults in England have very poor literacy skills. It is vital that information about the scheme is presented in a way that is easy for them to understand. Last year, the Government published their “Transforming Support” White Paper, which, among other things, pledged to pilot a new Access to Work enhanced package for people who need more support than the existing scheme can provide. How does the Minister envisage that that will benefit those with MSK conditions specifically? The White Paper also spoke of Access to Work developing an innovative digital service. Will the Minister guarantee that changes will be mindful of the fact that so many adults struggle with literacy and digital skills?

It is disappointing that the Government are failing to administer the Access to Work scheme promptly. In a response to a written question from my hon. Friend the Member for Lewisham, Deptford (Vicky Foxcroft), who will respond on behalf of the Opposition this morning, the responding Minister said that 21,780 applications were outstanding on 5 September last year. That is 21,780 people waiting to receive support for their health condition. It is completely unacceptable. I ask the Minister to update the House on the current state of affairs.

The last Labour party manifesto committed to help disabled people who want to work by bringing back specialist employment advisers and introducing a

Government-backed reasonable adjustments passport scheme to help people move between jobs more easily. In their White Paper, the Government said:

“Access to Work is supporting a series of Adjustment Passport trials. The Adjustment Passport will provide a living document of the disabled person’s workplace adjustments, general working requirements and signposts adjustment support at every stage of the journey into work.”

Will the Minister give more information on these trials and how they are going? Can she say what actions her Department has taken to ensure that the passports are user-friendly for people who have problems with literacy?

The Government can promote MSK health and prevent issues from arising through specific campaigns developed with the expertise of health professionals and occupational therapists. They can also legislate for good working practices. It is important that the Government lead on creating positive workplace cultures around promoting MSK health, but for this to be most effective, they need to look at the issue from the employee’s perspective. Under the Equality Act 2010, employers must make “reasonable adjustments” to workplaces, working practices and policies or procedures, to remove or reduce any disadvantages faced by workers that are related to their disabilities. However, it can be difficult for people to raise concerns in the workplace, especially if their job is insecure. People on zero-hours contracts are a particular risk in this regard.

One of the key sectors in which MSK has an impact is transport and logistics, and we know that many delivery drivers are on zero-hour contracts. Health and care is another key sector affected; again, many in the care sector are on zero-hour contracts. Clearly, then, banning zero-hour contracts, as Labour would do, is important not just to ensure that people know that they have stable work and a reliable income, but to prevent a race to the bottom in health and safety at work. The Health and Safety Executive is responsible for inspecting organisations and enforcing statutory duties in relation to health and safety law. The HSE can investigate businesses and has the power to bring enforcement proceedings, including prosecutions, in cases of serious failures. Its work is incredibly important, yet the HSE’s funding has been savagely cut since 2010.

Analysis last year from the Prospect trade union found that Government funding for the HSE decreased by 45% in cash terms between 2010 and 2019, from £228 million to £126 million. Funding increased to £185 million in 2022, but this still represents a huge decrease from 2010 levels. Prospect’s research also highlighted staff cuts of 35% across the HSE since 2010, while the number of inspectors has fallen by 18%. These cuts are an attack on the health and safety of all of us, and I call on the Government to review the needs of the HSE and restore funding to at least 2010 levels. We cannot allow the Government’s obsession with austerity to damage our health and safety.

The Government could also promote MSK health and prevent issues from arising by supporting the “Better Bones” campaign, which is led by the Royal Osteoporosis Society and the Sunday Express and backed by many organisations, including the Federation of Small Businesses, Parkinson’s UK, Coeliac UK and a number of unions and royal colleges. Some 50% of women and 20% of men over the age of 50 will have a fracture caused by

osteoporosis—staggering rates. A third of those who have a fracture and have osteoporosis will have to leave their jobs.

Fracture liaison services can do invaluable work in identifying whether people have osteoporosis. However, only 51% of NHS trusts in England have them. As a result, many people will break bones and go to A&E, and will be seen without their underlying osteoporosis being diagnosed and treated. That leaves a massive risk that they will suffer further, more serious fractures in the future. As a result of this postcode lottery, around 90,000 people a year are missing out on important diagnosis for a condition for which they could otherwise receive medication that would reduce their risk of further fractures.

The “Better Bones” campaign is calling for access for all over-50s to fracture liaison services with dedicated bone specialists, £30 million a year of extra investment to make fracture liaison services universal in England, Wales and Scotland, and the appointment of a fractures tsar for each British nation. It was therefore extremely disappointing that there was no extra funding in the autumn statement for fracture liaison clinics, despite the Minister in the Lords saying in September:

“We are proposing to announce, in the forthcoming Autumn Statement, a package of prioritised measures to expand the provision of fracture liaison services and improve their current quality. NHS England is also setting up a fracture liaison service expert steering group”.—[Official Report, House of Lords, 14 September 2023; Vol. 832, c. GC241.]

That is especially disappointing from a Government who claim that they want to try to help people over 50 to get back into work. It is disappointing too that, in July, the then Secretary of State for Health and Social Care said that the Government planned to spend more than £8 billion from 2022-23 to 2024-25 to support elective recovery, with NHS England prioritising fracture liaison services in its elective recovery plan. However, in the end, fracture liaison services were not even mentioned in the elective recovery plan.

The Government must address the shortcomings in fracture liaison services, which would contribute to helping over-50s back into work, and I ask the Minister to press this point with ministerial colleagues. As the Federation of Small Businesses said of the “Better Bones” campaign, it

“is more than a health initiative—it’s a matter of economic vitality. We need to address the increased numbers of those who have left the workplace as employees, self-employed or small business owners themselves due to sickness. This campaign is one of those steps.”

The Government can support workers with MSK conditions, too, by ensuring flexible working from day one, as a Labour Government would do. We also need to see action from Government on people’s general health and MSK conditions through investment in the health and wellbeing of all communities.

Versus Arthritis argues that being overweight or obese increases the risk of developing arthritis conditions such as osteoarthritis and gout. It also points out that swimming is a good exercise for people with musculoskeletal conditions, such as arthritis or back pain. The water helps to support the weight of the body, which reduces strain on painful joints. The Government should also promote MSK health by ensuring people can access facilities such as swimming pools and leisure centres.

Sadly, central Government cuts to local government since 2010 have resulted in many pools and leisure centres closing across the country, including in my own constituency of Wirral West. During the campaign to save the Woodchurch Leisure Centre and swimming pool, I remember people telling me how they used the pool to cope with arthritis. The loss of this facility has been devastating for many people trying to manage MSK conditions in my constituency and it is doubtless the same for people across the country.

Government strategy must look at the impact of austerity policies on sport and leisure facilities and at the impact that this has on the health of the population. Musculoskeletal issues cause serious problems for millions of people and can have a devastating impact on an individual’s working life. The high prevalence of such conditions warrants a high-profile, cross-departmental policy intervention. I to pay tribute to all those who work so hard to promote safe and healthy working environments, including the HSE professionals, occupational therapists and of course hard-working trade union health and safety reps who do such invaluable work in identifying workplace issues and campaigning for greater safety for working people.

The Government must bring forward a cross-departmental MSK strategy with clear goals to improve prevention and to support those with MSK conditions. Failure to do so will only lead to continuing costs to people’s health and happiness and continuing costs to the Exchequer for NHS and social security spending. The benefits of taking action on MSK are clear to all, and I call on the Government to do just that.

9.47 am

Margaret Greenwood

I would say it is a tie between “Home Alone 2”—because I think Tim Curry makes it—and “It’s a Wonderful Life”. The other tradition on Christmas eve is watching “It’s a Wonderful Life”; then I sit around with my brothers-in-law and watch the “Father Ted” Christmas special—I know all the words to that, too.

Some decry the loss of the Christian message from Christmas, seeing that as an undermining of British values. I understand that concern, although I do not

think it is anything particularly new. Commercialism and escapism have been displacing the Christmas message for decades if not longer, and a nice, feel-good, schmaltzy, vague magic has been allowed to displace the meaning of the nativity for longer than I have been alive, at least. I have had the best parents, but I was not brought up to go to church, although I was raised in an era when the assumption was that we believed in God—probably the Christian version. Nevertheless, the first Christmas story that I remember having read to me as a very small child was “The Night Before Christmas”, which begins:

“’Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the house

Not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse”.

I remember the thrill of being read that by my mum, as I perched on my bed on Christmas eve, ready to be tucked up. I was aged three and a half. There was an empty stocking hanging expectantly, and a tingling sense of excitement. Lovely and traditional though it was, it has no more to do with the Christian message of Christmas than “Home Alone”, “Love Actually”, “Elf”, or any of the other stories that we enjoy at this time of year, so before we get too upset about Christmas being joylessly erased by winter festivals and all that, let us not forget that the Christian message has always been seen as something of an inconvenience—something uncomfortable to be brushed aside, whether it is Christmas or not. In fact, Christmas is one of those rare occasions when you can more easily get away with talking about Christianity. This debate is a case in point.

My contention is that Christianity has always been and always is counter-cultural. It is meant to be. It is deeply disturbing and even offensive. I am reminded of Lucy asking Mr Beaver about Aslan in “The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe”. She asks nervously, “Is he a tame lion?” “Oh no,” says Mr Beaver, “he’s not tame, but he is good.” He is good. Jesus is not tame; Christianity is not tame; and Christmas is not tame, but He is, and they are, good. I would say to people: if you are prepared to allow yourself to be disturbed and offended, you will discover that He is good—good for you, even.

Christmas is all about stories: there is Dickens’s “A Christmas Carol”—best performed, of course, by the Muppets—“It’s a Wonderful Life”, the “Home Alone” films and the many legends of Father Christmas and the trials of his reindeer. The Christmas story, however, is a different kind of tale altogether. It is told in just two of the gospels in the New Testament—Matthew and Luke—and the jarring thing is that the writers expect us to believe that the nativity is history. Just before Luke launches into the account of the nativity, he starts his book with this:

“Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.”

Those four short verses tell us something pretty shocking about the story that is to follow, in which the God of the universe writes himself into our story. He comes into the world that he created as a baby, born in poverty in an obscure corner of the Roman Empire. He comes into the world for one chief reason: to suffer and die in our place, so that sinful human beings can be forgiven our wretchedness and have eternal life. Luke’s verses tell us

that this story cannot be a fairy story. It cannot be a fable or a feel-good, festive yarn. Given Luke’s introduction, this story can only reasonably be one of two things: fact or fabrication. When we look more carefully into the evidence of the eyewitnesses, we see that fabrication soon falls away as a plausible theory, too.

Maybe we get a shiver down our spine when we think of the magic of Christmas. How much more of a shiver might we get if we realised that what we read about in the nativity is true? The fact that millions have accepted that continues to be crucial to our society. The nativity tells the story of a teenage mum who, along with her husband and new child, becomes a refugee from a tyrant, lost in an empire that cares little for them and that values them as nothing more than tax fodder. There is so much there for so many people to identify with. It is a reminder that God never considers us an irrelevance or an insignificant and anonymous number; every hair on our head is numbered, and our names are written on the palm of His hands. Commercialism and escapism will not make Christmas mean anything, really.

Maybe our difficulty is that we feel inclined to miss Christmas, or at least to celebrate less, because, after all, look at the state of the world—what is there to celebrate? God looked at the world and saw the mess it was in. He did not hide under the covers; He entered in at enormous cost, because He loves us. Christians are to be the hands and feet of Jesus in our communities, as my hon. Friend the Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) said, running the food banks, providing support for those in debt or poverty, housing the homeless, befriending the lonely, and loving our neighbour in practical ways. That is not because we seek to earn God’s favour, but in joyful response to the fact that by His Grace, we already have it, and Christmas proves that we have it.

If the Christmas story is true, yes, it is disturbing, but it means that there is justice. It means that evil does not win; good does. It means that there is love beyond our wildest dreams. It means that there is ultimate truth, and that there is meaning in every life, and in every part of every life. It means that human rights actually exist. They are not just a passing 21st-century fashion; they are the invention of the inventor of everything. Because we have ultimate dignity of bearing the image of God, that means every other human being does, too. No Parliament, President, despot or dictator can change that one jot.

Christmas is also a time of personal sadness for some. It may be the time when we feel the loss of loved ones the most. Christmas is a time of great joy for me, but all the same, this Christmas will be my 20th without my mum. I mentioned earlier that the first story I remember my mum reading to me was “The Night Before Christmas”, and the last thing I read to my mum in her hospital bed was this from the last book in the Bible, the Revelation:

“And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, ‘Now the dwelling of God is with humans, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.’”

If Luke is to be believed that the nativity is eyewitness testimony, we can believe those things, too. It means that there is real hope, even for a scumbag like me. Happy Christmas.

10.3 am

Tim Farron

To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, what steps he is taking to help ensure the accessibility of her Department's digital services for elderly claimants.

Sammy Wilson

Digital accessibility is no different for elderly people than for any other disabled people. We aim to comply with the Public Sector Bodies Accessibility Regulations (2018), which means that services must conform to the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG) to AA level. All services are tested to ensure that they work with assistive software, particularly with screen readers, screen magnifiers and voice recognition software.

ONS data shows that disability prevalence increases significantly as people get older. In the UK 2021 census, approximately 23% of working age adults identified as disabled. This rose to just over 40% of 65 to 70 year olds and almost 60% of people over the age of 80.

The types of disability that affect older people’s ability to use digital services include

• dexterity impairments (35% of 65+) which make using a mouse more difficult;
• memory impairments
• (13% of 65+) which make following complex processes more difficult; and
• vision impairments (13% of 65+) which make reading and inputting information more difficult.

Meeting the legislation for digital accessibility mitigates all of these issues to the extent that it is possible. Our citizen-facing services that are aimed at elderly claimants, such as Pension Credit, Get Your State Pension, Pension Tracing Service, bereavement related services and Carer’s Allowance are all compliant.

All citizen facing services in Retirement, and Bereavement and Care are 100% compliant and work with all the main assistive software types.

Paul Maynard

Of course. I have just cleared my throat, Madam Deputy Speaker, and by my standards this is a very short speech.

I will deal in summary with the other amendments. What I am seeking with those amendments is to ensure that, in using definitions, we do not end up creating mission creep for the DMU. I want the DMU to focus on the emerging digital economy; I do not want it to end up dealing with, for example, supermarkets such as Tesco, which will increasingly use online services to allow customers to shop. I do not think that is the intention of those proposing the Bill, but we need to make it clear in the Bill that that sort of mission creep will not be part of how the regulator develops.

I also want to make the point that, when looking at entrenched market power, focusing purely on size can sometimes be deceptive. Rather small enterprises can

often have a disproportionate effect on a market. They do not necessarily need to be big. While we rightly understand that generally the bigger the entity or organisation, the bigger the impact it has, it is not always the elephant that makes a difference; it is sometimes the mouse. That is why focusing on market power rather than size is a better way of dealing with effective regulation.

In summary, I want to hear from my hon. Friends on the Front Bench a response to the challenges that I have laid out. I do not seek to press the amendments to a vote this evening, but I am sure that they will be returned to in the other place. Surely it is in the interests not only of the people we serve, but of the wider British economy that in passing such pioneering legislation, which in many ways puts Britain in a different place from other jurisdictions, we do not end up disincentivising the sort of investment that I know is part of the Prime Minister’s aspiration to make this country a world leader in artificial intelligence and machine learning safety and a place where digital businesses will want to invest. It is as simple as that. That is why it is vital that in this Bill we strike as perfect a balance as we can, because in this complex, ever-changing market it is very difficult to predict what the future will be.

Robert Buckland