My Lords, I remind the House of my interests in the register as a serving councillor on Stevenage Borough Council and Hertfordshire County Council, a vice-president of the LGA and a vice-chair of the District Councils’ Network. I ask the Minister to convey our wishes too to the noble Baroness, Lady Scott of Bybrook; we wish her well for a speedy recovery. Her patience and willingness to collaborate on the Bill have been outstanding.
With this Bill, we have an opportunity to put right some of the very difficult issues that have emerged from the awful tragedy of the Grenfell fire. In the six years since Grenfell, we have seen people left in the most dreadful limbo on this issue. The stress, fear and harm they have lived with on a daily basis are incalculable. They are not able to sleep for fear that their buildings are not safe; they are living in fear of the exorbitant costs of mediation measures; and they are unable to sell their properties or move away. For some, that has impacted their physical and mental health. In the most serious cases, leaseholders have faced bankruptcy. Their dreams of owning their own homes have transformed into the stuff of nightmares.
The noble Earl, Lord Lytton, mentioned the case of Vista Tower in Stevenage, which I know well. That demonstrates so many of the issues arising from the remediation we are talking about. I remind your Lordships’ House that nearly two-thirds of high-rise flats and a third of mid-rise flats still require an external wall safety form before any mortgages are even considered, so the issue is certainly far from being fixed.
We welcome the comprehensive and detailed Amendment 260A from the noble Earl, Lord Lytton, particularly his strong focus on “polluter pays”—a principle that has had much attention during the passage of the Bill. As ever, he has a very thorough and conscientious approach in setting out a complete building safety remediation scheme. We acknowledge that his knowledge and expertise on and experience of such issues are recognised throughout your Lordships’ House, and I hope that, as we go through the following
processes of remediation, the Government will continue to work with him and the cladding groups to advise on improving the remediation scheme that will comprehensively cover the remediation that people need.
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However, our fear about the noble Earl’s specific amendment is that it would do two things. First, it would mean a danger that progress already made on this issue would have to be halted or slowed while a whole new scheme was consulted on and implemented—the noble Earl, Lord Lytton, himself outlined some of the reasons why that might happen. Secondly, we have concerns that it would bring down on the Government a rain of litigation that may delay progress even further.
The three amendments from the noble Lord, Lord Young, are helpful, sensible and in line with our long-standing position that all leaseholders should be protected, including non-qualifying leaseholders not covered by the protections in the Act—for example, in buildings under 11 metres with multiple properties. As Amendment 282C and its consequential Amendment 315A seek to rectify the situation that occurred inadvertently when the Building Safety Act removed the protection that leaseholders get under the Bill if they subsequently renew their lease, we hope that the Minister will accept this amendment. The noble Baroness, Lady Scott of Bybrook, has already acknowledged that this is a gap in the Building Safety Act 2022. If the Minister does not do so, and the noble Lord, Lord Young, chooses to divide the House on this, he will have our support.
Similarly, we believe that Amendment 282ND in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Young, to which I added my name, is vital as it would extend leaseholder protections in the Building Safety Act to all types of leaseholders, including in relation to the £10,000 cap on costs outside London and the £15,000 cap inside London. I hope that the Minister will be able to accept this amendment as it is simply inequitable for different classes of leaseholders to be treated differently.
We completely recognise the importance of the urgent consideration of the situation relating to remediation for buildings under 11 metres—the subject of both Amendment 309A in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Young, and Amendment 282NF in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock. We would not want other work held up while this was introduced, so we hope the Minister can provide some reassurance that the Government take the issue of these 11-metre buildings as seriously as we all do, and take account of the view of both the London Fire Brigade and, apparently, the Secretary of State, about those buildings, as mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Young.
To conclude my remarks on this section of the Bill, this has been going on far too long. We want it to move forward quickly now, and I do not think there is any division in the House about how urgent it is to get these things put right. We hope that the amendments that are there to move things forward quickly will be supported by the House, and we look forward to hearing the noble Earl’s comments on what has been said this afternoon.