My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, for his great persistence and determination regarding common-sense regulation of the use of pavement licences. He spoke powerfully on this issue in Committee and has done so again today. We all recognise the significant boost that new uses of our pavements have given to our high streets and we support that, but it is of course important that the balance is right. Indeed, most of the amendments in this group do give some balance.
Amendments 249 and 250 relate to charging for maintenance and cleansing of high streets. We very much support the principle that the applicant should contribute—it goes along with the “polluter pays” idea—but we should think about the fact that this should really be for local determination. For example,
where a local authority is trying to encourage regeneration, it may not want to implement that as part of its process of encouragement, but we certainly support the basic principle behind the noble Lord’s amendment.
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Amendments 251, 252 and 255 all refer to the consultation process. We support them, and the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, set out eloquently the reasons why we might want to extend the consultation period. I certainly agree. Thinking of my own high street, there is a very active business and community forum that works together to improve the high street, and it may well want to consult on its own response to such a proposal. Twenty-one days is not an unreasonable period to enable it to do that; it might be very helpful.
We are a little concerned about Amendment 253, as a general principle of planning puts the onus on objectors to raise objections during the consultation, so they can be duly considered, alongside officer advice, in dealing with the application. I am not totally convinced that automatic rejection of an application if there are no responses is the right answer. In response to the noble Lord’s amendments in Committee, we were told that it is already the responsibility of local authorities to maintain the free flow of pedestrians and road users. If the Government do not accept this amendment, perhaps they might consider tightening up the wording of the guidance on pavement licences to take greater account of the issues the noble Lord raised. It may be that the wording is not quite tight enough.
We support Amendments 256 and 258 in the names of the noble Lord, Lord Young, my noble friends Lord Faulkner and Lord Hunt and the noble Baroness, Lady Northover. Amendment 256 covers the clearing away of furniture when areas are not in use, which is particularly important. My noble friend Lord Hunt referred to free movement along pavements. Of course, in a night-time economy furniture can get thrown around and left in all sorts of places where it should not be and cause real obstructions for other pavement users.
Amendment 258 would ensure that smoking and vaping does not impact on others. At the moment, pavement cafés are often marred for non-smokers, who find them difficult to use because smokers tend to see them as their own territory. I am afraid that I do not agree with the noble Lord, Lord Naseby, on this one either. Going into a pub garden, for example, on a warm summer evening is often a great feature of our life in this country—that is, when it is not marred by rain. But it can also be marred by clouds of cigarette smoke or vape smoke, so we have to think differently about that. There is also the issue of the cigarette ends that smokers leave. I have never understood why smokers do not think of cigarette ends as litter. The area outside a pub is often absolutely covered in cigarette ends. So there is the question of having smoke-free areas where there are cafés, pubs and restaurants.
We also strongly support Amendment 257, which would ensure appropriate marking and barriers for outside eating areas. This is particularly important not just for members of the disability community but for all pavement users, particularly those with small children, who, as my noble friend Lord Hunt said,
might be distracted as they are walking along. It needs to be clear where there are areas with people sitting and eating.
So, as I said, we are very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, for raising these issues again and I look forward to hearing the response of the noble Earl.