UK Parliament / Open data

Lifelong Learning (Higher Education Fee Limits) Bill

I am familiar with what the current issue is and, if I express myself in any way inaccurately, I know that my colleagues will help me to write to the noble Lord and all your Lordships. The issue is that there are obviously very significant changes to the Student Loans Company systems with the establishment of the LLE, and sharia compliance should not be an add-on on the end. It needs to be woven through every single one of them and we are committed to doing that really important job. It is very significant in its complexity, but I am happy to set out more detail in a letter to the noble Lord, if that is helpful. I can stress, knowing what I think is behind his question, that there is no lack of motivation and commitment to doing this. It is a practical barrier rather than any other.

Returning to my recent meeting with representatives on this issue, we will continue to engage with your Lordships, Members of the other place and representatives from the Islamic community. I will be able to provide a further update on alternative student finance later this year.

Delivering the Government’s vision for the LLE will require, as I just said in response to the noble Lord’s question, extensive changes to the student finance system and the types of course available. Introducing ongoing reviews into primary legislation before policies have been fully implemented or had sufficient time to bed in would, we believe, be of limited value, if any, particularly when the Government want to focus on working with the sector and learners—and indeed with employers, as your Lordships raised—during implementation.

As your Lordships know, we often see initiatives in post-16 education needing time to scale up to reach their full potential. The noble Lord, Lord Watson, referred to the development of T-levels, which have been deliberately phased to ensure high-quality provision. There are now 16 T-levels available, with 164 providers. Over 10,000 new students were recruited to T-levels in 2022; that is more than double the 2021 figure, but there is obviously also tremendous growth potential there.

I turn to some of the specific questions which your Lordships raised. The noble Lord, Lord Aberdare, hoped that there would be a straightforward registration process for independent training providers. Of course we need to make it as straightforward as humanly possible; equally, it needs to be appropriately rigorous so that we uphold quality because, as the noble Lord understands extremely well, there have been issues

with the quality of provision and we really do not want to go there again with these reforms. We are very committed and keen to ensure that we uphold quality at all times, so simplicity of process should not trump the quality of delivery.

In relation to VAT, the noble Lord answered his own question; it is considerably above my pay grade. On creative subjects, I had breakfast last week with a group of tech companies to talk about STEM careers. A number of them really wanted to talk about only the importance of creative subjects within a STEM career, so I agree with much of the sentiment that the noble Lord expressed on that.

5.15 pm

My noble friend Lord Willetts asked about the Government’s view on four-year degrees. As he knows, the Government rightly tread a delicate line when it comes to the relationship with providers; they should not, and do not, want to be seen to push providers one way or another. Where I hope we have been really clear is on the importance of flexibility, quality and value for money for students. I know my noble friend has also considered the value of two-year degrees as well as four-year ones. That is something for providers to reflect on seriously when it comes to perhaps using these changes to rethink some of the options that they offer to students.

The noble Baroness opposite raised many points relating to unintended consequences. I shall pick up two of them. First, I understand her concerns that there might be disincentives and that the emphasis on modular learning would be such that one would lose part-time learning. That is not something we expect to happen. If one considers those members of the workforce who are in work and considering upskilling or reskilling, as we heard in earlier debates, one sees that there is a huge value in part-time education. Like the noble Baroness, I spoke to Birkbeck and the OU in preparation for today’s debate along with another number of other providers, and they all talk about how a number of their mature students in particular really value part-time provision. That is something that we will track closely, but I think we will see different groups of students preferring different modes of delivery, whether that be distance learning—in relation to our earlier debate—part-time or shorter full-time courses.

On the issue of the risk of employers just using this as a way of—my words are stronger than hers—abdicating responsibility for training their workforce, I think the noble Baroness would agree that this country needs a big cultural shift in the way that employers regard their investment in their workforce. We have heard from employers two things that I think are mutually consistent. The first is a concern that when employees get additional qualifications, they become attractive to other employers too. I have spoken to employer representative organisations that have suggested that some employers are considering—again, these are my words, not theirs—golden handcuffs so that if a member of their staff goes on additional training and stays with the firm for a certain period then the employer might pay off either all or part of their loan. That could work in other ways, but a change in culture is important.

The noble Lord, Lord Aberdare, and other noble Lords talked about the importance of information, advice and guidance. In a way, that goes to the heart of the whole question of culture: how quickly will students and providers feel confident to shift from their current models? Information, advice and guidance is clearly critical to that, and it is important work that we need to put in ahead of the launch of the LLE.

I hope I have set out a number of reasons why the Government do not feel they can support these amendments.

About this proceeding contribution

Reference

831 cc242-4GC 

Session

2022-23

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords Grand Committee
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