My Lords, this has been a very good and well-focused debate. We have focused deeply on the particular issue I will focus on in my speech about why there is a difference in the Government’s approach to what seem to be, on the surface, very similar instances of the evidence we have all been looking at, and are convinced by, that, in some way, the internet, as currently constructed, is gendered against women. Something must be done about that.
I am grateful to the Minister for introducing this group. Amendment 135A is very well-drafted and appropriate for what we are doing. I have very little to comment on it. It is a difficult area, but I am glad that the Government are putting their money where their mouth was on this issue and that we are seeing some action coming forward.
My noble friend Lady Merron would have been speaking to our amendments in this group, but, unfortunately, she has been taken off for some treatment to her leg, which seems to have been slightly twisted. They follow on from the meeting that the Minister mentioned with Professor Lewis from the Law Commission, when she very expertly introduced this whole topic, explaining very carefully, and with great care and concern, the reasons why the Law Commission has proposed, and the Government have accepted, that the new law to be brought in on cyberflashing needs to be different. My problem with that was that it seemed, by the end of it, that the rationale for doing it differently from other offences of a similar nature and type was more to do with the fact that there were good reasons for having the ability to send dick pics—let us call them that, even though it is a horrible term to use.
It is sometimes necessary for pictures to be sent around, and examples of that were given. For example, in a medical situation in which a doctor, perhaps during the Covid epidemic, wanted to know about a patient’s particular problem in the genital area, a picture would be helpful in diagnosis. Sending that should not be made illegal. Other reasons were given. The argument was good, but not sufficient to trump the need to have in place a set of laws relating to the way in which the internet treats women and girls in this dimension that does not come from different directions and is not confusing but complementary.
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That is why we have tabled Amendment 269, to probe a little further why the Government have opted for this approach, and the argument has been well made. It has been further picked up in the amendment from the noble Baroness, Lady Featherstone, which we also signed—and I send my best wishes to her for a speedy recovery. The way in which the noble Baroness, Lady Burt, introduced it made it very clear that the direction that she was coming from was that this was not a good thing, and I want to cover some of the ground on that.
We do not need to spend too much time on this, as the issue is very narrow; it is a question of choosing one of two options about how we bring this forward—whether it is consent based or whether to make it an offence on specific evidence from the individual who has sent the messages as to why they did it. For all the reasons, it seems to me that a consent-based offence is a much more comprehensive way in which to approach the issue. It covers all forms—you do not have to distinguish between them. It is more straightforward and much easier to understand, and that is a really important point. If, in passing the law, we are simply trying to attack bad behaviour, we are not going far enough. We want the laws to be illustrative and for people to learn from them. If it is a simple law and a
simple concept of consent having to be required, and if not it is illegal, that opens up the opportunity to make much more of this than we previously have.
The evidence is there that this is a widespread and unpleasant happening. AirDropping seems to be one of the causes of that, and it is something that we do not seem to address. We are attacking the end result, which is the distress and unpleasantness caused, but have the Government thought about whether AirDropping could be looked at in more detail, so that the process was more of an offence, as it is one that seems to cause harm? If you are in an enclosed space, such as on a bus or another form of public transport, and somebody sends you an unsolicited image because you happen to have your phone on and have not barred AirDropping, that distress is compounded by the fact that somewhere close to you is somebody sending you images that you do not want to receive in a way that is meant to threaten or, as we have heard, might be to attract your attention in a positive way but, anyway, is unwanted. If we are not attacking that, why not? That seems an open goal, in some senses.
For all the reasons that we have this coming forward, we have arrived at a situation in which a large number of people who are affected by this and want to see the law change do not like the solution. It is inconsistent. The Government do not have to accept Law Commission recommendations. In fact, I have spent quite a lot of my time when not involved in this Bill trying to redress a decision taken by the Government not to implement a Law Commission proposal for a law to prevent a particularly egregious Victorian piece of legislation that is causing a lot of distress among people who take out high-cost loans, but we have not been able to make progress. The Government do not want to move. The Law Commission has developed a Bill, and I have put it in as a Private Member’s Bill but it has still not got through. I will have one more go before I give up. But we do not have to follow the Law Commission; we still have choices to make in relation to this. It could be a consent-based offence. For all the reasons that others have given—and I support them—it is a pity that that is not the case.
I signed up to the amendment in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Berridge, because it is a very helpful one that we should think carefully about. It seems to get around the question about how to ensure that the process of reporting and the subsequent carrying forward of the cases that are made is picked up by those who would perhaps need a bit of support in that area. That is something we should support as well. I look forward to the Minister’s response.