UK Parliament / Open data

National Security Bill

Debate on bills on Tuesday, 7 March 2023, in the House of Lords, led by Lord Sharpe of Epsom and Lord Bellamy. The answering members were Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede and Lord Coaker.
Lords report stage second day. Amendments 87 to 90, 92 to 95, 97 to 104, 107 to 110A, 112 and 113, 115 to 120, 123 to 153, 154A to 166, 167, 169 to 173, 177 and 181 to 184 agreed to. Amendment 185 disagreed to on division (93 to 197). Amendment 186 agreed to. Amendment 188A disagreed to on division (146 to 211). Amendment 191 agreed to. Amendment 193 agreed to on division (210 to 184). Amendment 195 disagreed to on division (132 to 180). Amendments 196, 198 to 203 and 204 agreed to. Bill, as amended, ordered to be printed (HL Bill 115).

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

828 cc693-766 

Session

2022-23

Legislative stage

Report stage

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber
Legislative scrutiny: National Security Bill. Joint Committee on Human Rights fifth report.
Wednesday, 12 October 2022
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
House of Commons
National Security Bill; Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Bill: Government response. Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee twentieth report.
Wednesday, 7 December 2022
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
Report of the Intelligence and Security Committee of Parliament
Tuesday, 13 December 2022
House of Commons papers
House of Lords
House of Commons
National Security Bill 2022-23. As amended in Committee.
Wednesday, 18 January 2023
Bills
House of Lords

Show all related items (6)
Deposited Paper DEP2023-0193
Wednesday, 15 March 2023
Deposited papers
House of Lords
National Security Bill 2022-23. As amended on Report.
Tuesday, 7 March 2023
Bills
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 828 c693 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Sharpe of Epsom

87: Clause 64, page 45, line 18, after “out” insert “re...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 828 cc694-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the amendments in this group clarify the intent of the enhanced tier of the foreign inf...


Show all contributions (102)
Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 828 cc695-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I speak to Amendments 91 and 106, which the Minister has mentioned. In this case, I spe...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 828 cc696-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful for the Minister’s response to the amendments I tabled, supported by my n...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 828 cc697-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the enhanced tier of FIRS requires the registration of arrangements to carry out any ac...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 828 c698 (Link to this contribution)

I thank noble Lords for their contributions to this short but constructive discussion. I will tur...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 828 c698 (Link to this contribution)

Can the Minister give us an assurance that he will consult with the academies, the Royal Society ...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 828 cc698-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am happy with the reassurance that we are committed to consulting, but I cannot say a...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 828 cc699-700 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Sharpe of Epsom

88: Clause 64, page 45, line 19, after “for” insert “re...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 828 c700 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Sharpe of Epsom

92: Clause 66, page 46, line 13, leave out from beginni...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 828 cc701-2 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Sharpe of Epsom

97: Clause 67, page 46, line 22, after “out” insert “re...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 828 c702 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Sharpe of Epsom

107: Clause 68, page 47, line 14, leave out first “prin...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 828 cc702-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have listened carefully to the debate about the political tier of the foreign influen...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 828 cc704-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have my name on a number of amendments in this group. I will start by saying, which I...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 828 c705 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to Amendment 166A in my name. I also thank the Minister for the way in whi...

Baroness Noakes | 828 c705 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I got involved in Committee—my only appearance on the Bill—because of concerns brought ...

Lord Beith | 828 c706 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I think I failed to hear something the Minister said earlier relating to Amendment 110A...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 828 cc706-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, raised valid areas with regard to the sometimes comple...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 828 c707 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, there seems to be a new approach to Ministers by buttering them up. I noticed my noble ...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 828 cc707-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who participated in this debate. I am feeling a little overwhel...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 828 c709 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Sharpe of Epsom

108: Clause 68, page 47, line 14, leave out second “pri...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 828 c709 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Sharpe of Epsom

112: Clause 68, page 47, line 23, leave out “10” and in...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 828 c710 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Sharpe of Epsom

115: Leave out Clause 69

Member’s explanatory sta...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 828 c710 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Sharpe of Epsom

116: Clause 70, page 48, line 25, leave out “principal”...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 828 cc710-1 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Sharpe of Epsom

123: Clause 71, page 49, line 16, leave out from first ...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 828 cc711-2 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Sharpe of Epsom

126: Clause 72, page 49, line 22, leave out subsections...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 828 cc712-4 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Sharpe of Epsom

134: Schedule 15, page 184, line 7, leave out “(1) to”<...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 828 c715 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Sharpe of Epsom

147: Clause 75, page 51, line 13, at end insert—

...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 828 c715 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Sharpe of Epsom

154A: Clause 75, page 51, line 31, at end insert—

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 828 c716 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Sharpe of Epsom

155: Clause 77, page 52, line 24, leave out “an” and in...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 828 c716 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Sharpe of Epsom

158: Clause 78, page 53, line 6, leave out first “an” a...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 828 c716 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Sharpe of Epsom

162: Clause 79, page 53, line 32, after “(1)” insert “(...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 828 c717 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Sharpe of Epsom

163: Clause 80, page 54, line 15, leave out “an” and in...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 828 c717 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Sharpe of Epsom

165: Clause 82, page 55, line 21, leave out “principals...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 828 c717 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Sharpe of Epsom

167: Clause 83, page 56, leave out line 3

Member'...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 828 c717 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames

168: Leave out Clause 84

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 828 cc717-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, at the risk of being accused of buttering up the noble and learned Lord, Lord Bellamy, ...

Lord Pannick | 828 c718 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I added my name to some of the amendments tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Marks. I echo ...

Lord Bellamy | 828 cc718-721 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am extremely grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Marks, for

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 828 c721 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have heard the Minister’s explanation. It is right that the amendments that were betw...

Lord Bellamy | 828 cc721-2 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Bellamy

169: Clause 85, page 57, line 18, leave out from “wrongdoing” t...

Lord Bellamy | 828 c722 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Bellamy

177: Clause 86, page 58, line 19, leave out from “out” to “to” ...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 828 c722 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames

180: Leave out Clause 88

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 828 cc722-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we now move on to group four on legal aid. Again, I express our gratitude to the Minist...

Lord Pannick | 828 cc724-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have added my name to amendments in this group. I declare my interest as a practising...

Baroness Ludford | 828 c726 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I can speak briefly because my noble friend Lord Marks and the noble Lord, Lord Pannick...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 828 c726 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, these clauses restrict access to civil legal aid for convicted terrorists, although the...

Baroness Ludford | 828 c727 (Link to this contribution)

Will the noble Lord explain on behalf of the Official Opposition why, if terrorism is a unique cr...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 828 c727 (Link to this contribution)

I agree that it demands justification, which is that when terrorists carry out their activities, ...

Baroness Butler-Sloss | 828 c727 (Link to this contribution)

That does not clear a path in the Bill at all. I am rather shocked by Clause 89. I should like to...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 828 c727 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we in the Opposition are accepting the principle that terrorism is uniquely terrible an...

Lord Pannick | 828 c727 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord is being patient, but what is there to review? Why has he not put down an amendmen...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 828 c727 (Link to this contribution)

We need a review because we do not know what the impact is unless we have looked at the data. It ...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 828 c727 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful and the noble Lord is being patient on these points. He referred to only the most s...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 828 c728 (Link to this contribution)

As the noble Lord knows, the amendment is calling for a review to look at the practical impact of...

Lord Davies of Gower | 828 c728 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I remind noble Lords that this is Report and not an opportunity to further debate the m...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 828 c728 (Link to this contribution)

It is perfectly within the rules of the Companion for noble Lords to seek points of clarification...

Lord Bellamy | 828 c728 (Link to this contribution)

I am again extremely grateful to noble Lords for their interventions and, in particular, for the ...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 828 c728 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the noble and learned Lord for giving way, but is it not the case that no one ge...

Lord Bellamy | 828 c728 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, there might well be found applications for exceptional case funding; approximately 75% ...

Viscount Hailsham | 828 c729 (Link to this contribution)

On the question of numbers and definition, what is the essential definition of exceptional case f...

Lord Bellamy | 828 c729 (Link to this contribution)

I do not have the exact definition in front of me. It is a matter for the director of the Legal A...

Viscount Hailsham | 828 c729 (Link to this contribution)

The number of cases would be very helpful.

Lord Bellamy | 828 cc729-731 (Link to this contribution)

I do not have that information with me, but about three-quarters of applications succeed.

A...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 828 c730 (Link to this contribution)

I would be grateful if the Minister could clarify a point from his earlier comments on exceptiona...

Lord Bellamy | 828 c730 (Link to this contribution)

No, that is not the Government’s position. There is a mechanism by way of exceptional case fundin...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 828 c730 (Link to this contribution)

Then the point that the Minister referred to about the Bill is irrelevant, because the eligibilit...

Lord Bellamy | 828 c730 (Link to this contribution)

It is not entirely irrelevant that exceptional case funding is always available for access to jus...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 828 c730 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, there is a sharp division of opinion on the general principles here. I share the disapp...

Lord Bellamy | 828 cc730-2 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Bellamy

181: Schedule 16, page 188, line 21, leave out from “proceeding...

Lord Bellamy | 828 c732 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Bellamy

182: Clause 89, page 60, line 11, after “Schedule 1” insert “ot...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 828 c732 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames

185: Clause 89, page 60, line 17, leave out “...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 828 c732 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I wish to test the opinion of the House on Amendment 185.

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 828 c732 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Sharpe of Epsom

186: Clause 89, page 60, line 35, at end insert—

...

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede | 828 c732 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede

188A: Clause 89, page 61, line 33, at end insert—...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 828 c732 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Sharpe of Epsom

191: After Clause 91, insert the following new Clause—<...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 828 cc732-740 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Section 41 of the Terrorism Act 2000—hereafter referred to as TACT —confers a power on ...

Lord Coaker | 828 cc739-743 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this is the first opportunity I have had to join other noble Lords in thanking the Mini...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 828 cc743-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my name is on Amendments 192 and 194. I also support Amendment 193. I remind the Minist...

Lord West of Spithead | 828 cc744-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support on behalf of the ISC Amendment 193 in the name of my noble friend Lord Coaker...

Lord Butler of Brockwell | 828 cc745-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I want to support Amendment 193, moved by the noble Lord, Lord Coaker. He said that he ...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 828 cc746-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, again I thank all those who have spoken on this group of amendments, and in particular ...

Lord Coaker | 828 c747 (Link to this contribution)

Before the noble Lord moves on to a different amendment, can he answer my question? How can Selec...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 828 c747 (Link to this contribution)

If they do not have the necessary security clearances, they obviously cannot, but, as I said earl...

Lord Beith | 828 c747 (Link to this contribution)

Has the noble Lord quite grasped the significant value of the ISC? I speak as someone who used to...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 828 cc747-8 (Link to this contribution)

I completely agree with the noble Lord. I certainly get it, and I hold the ISC in great respect, ...

Lord Coaker | 828 c748 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Coaker

193: After Clause 91, insert the following new Clause—

“Du...

Lord Coaker | 828 c748 (Link to this contribution)

As I indicated, I would like to test the opinion of the House.

Lord Coaker | 828 c748 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Coaker

195: After Clause 91, insert the following new Clause—

“Pr...

Lord Coaker | 828 cc748-753 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in moving Amendment 195, I will not speak at great length. The amendment requires the S...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 828 cc753-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, for bringing this issue to the Chamber on...

Lord Leigh of Hurley | 828 c754 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have not spoken on the Bill before, and I appreciate that we are very near the end of...

Lord Polak | 828 c754 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my noble friend Lord Leigh led the way, and I shall follow. Along with the noble Lord, ...

Lord Alton of Liverpool | 828 cc754-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Lords, Lord Polak and Lord Leigh, as well as my fr...

Lord Evans of Weardale | 828 c756 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is an honour to follow the noble Lord, Lord Alton. I have considerable sympathy for ...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 828 cc756-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have participated in this very brief debate.

I think ...

Lord Coaker | 828 cc758-760 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Lord for his response. Of course the Government are carefully considering this....

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 828 cc759-764 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Sharpe of Epsom

196: Before Schedule 17, insert the following new Sched...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 828 c765 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Sharpe of Epsom

198: Schedule 17, page 194, line 16, at end insert—

...
Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 828 cc765-6 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Sharpe of Epsom

200: Clause 94, page 64, line 19, at end insert—

...

Lord Sharpe of Epsom | 828 c766 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Sharpe of Epsom

204: Title, line 7, after “terrorism;” insert “to amend...

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