My Lords, this has been a really interesting debate. I cannot help noticing the gender balance of speakers who have shown an interest in the environment this evening, so I forgive the Minister if he is slightly terrified by us all standing here tonight.
We owe a debt of gratitude to the noble Baroness, Lady Young of Old Scone, for bringing this forward tonight because it has given us the opportunity, even at this hour—and it is not late for your Lordships’ House; I was here later last night—to look at some really serious issues and see whether there is anything the Minister can do, other than answering the questions posed to him, to take this back, as the noble Baroness asked, and come back with something more ambitious that will do the job that we seek it to do. Her speech showed her experience and knowledge of the issues and that is what this House is best known for. It is where our strength lies but it is a strength only if we take notice of what is said by those who know more than us at the Dispatch Boxes.
My first reaction to this SI was one of disappointment, which I think is a similar comment to the one made by the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch. This was an opportunity, across the suite of the SIs we are seeing, although we are discussing just one tonight, to set targets that match the scale of the challenge. The Minister was clear at the beginning about the scale of the challenge we are facing. But there was an opportunity to set targets that were ambitious but which with commitment would be achievable. The Government’s own reports outline the scale of the challenge, but it is not clear, certainly from today’s SI, that the sense of urgency and the ambition that are needed are actually there.
I want to raise three issues. A lot of the issues have already been aired and I feel that the Minister has a long list of responses to make. First—and I am glad to say this when the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville, is here—I thank the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee for its work. I also thank all those who provided briefings, including Wildlife and Countryside Link and Greener UK. On the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee, one piece of advice I give to MPs, which was given to me when I was first an MP, is to look at the reports from this committee, because they are excellent at getting under the issues of how things could have been done better if there is an issue. Interestingly, it was one of the very few occasions when I have seen one of these reports quoted extensively in a House of Commons debate on this issue: the committee is a credit to the whole House.
I start by emphasising the points made by my noble friend Lady Young on the reasons for her amendment today. It is clearly a serious omission not to have a target for the condition of terrestrial protected sites. SSSIs are recognised by Defra as important to the future programme of protection. Its own report says:
“To halt nature’s decline by 2030 we know we will need to take action to restore our protected sites, which are vital wildlife havens.”
These areas are pretty much the foundations of site-based conservation: there are 4,000 sites in England over 4,000 square miles, yet where are we and what are we doing about it? The 25-year environment plan committed, as my noble friend Lady Young said, to ensuring that 75% of SSSIs were in favourable condition. That has not been met. Not only has it not been met, the figure, as has been made clear in the debates, is stuck at around 40%.
This SI was a prime opportunity for the Government. It is a missed goal. It was an opportunity to show that we care about this, we want to do something about it and we are going to be ambitious. I do not understand why there is no target in here. I hope the noble Lord, Lord Harlech, will enlighten us this evening as to why there is no target, because that is the crux of why we are here this evening. My noble friend Lady Young has provided an opportunity for the Government to explain why, or to withdraw and come back with other targets, so we can understand and make some progress. I think the best thing to do, as she says, would be to take it back to the department to act on this.
My second point is about the 2030 species abundance target, regulation 12 in this SI. It outlines how the Government are going to measure whether the decline in biodiversity has been halved by 2030. We have heard already that it will be determined by comparing the relative species abundance index for 2029—anybody watching tonight is probably dozing off at that snappy expression—and 2030. The target to be met is for the 2030 figure to be
“the same as, or higher than,”
the 2029 figure. That seems to me pretty unambitious. It is a low bar to be comparing two consecutive years, rather than using an earlier baseline.
We know that biodiversity is steadily falling, year on year. It has been noted in the Commons already—by the Minister, incidentally—that the index has declined by around 2% a year, yet the Government think it is an ambitious target to ask if it has stayed the same. I have to say, that is really not good enough. It would be helpful to know whether Defra has an estimate of the likely index in 2029 and how that compares to where we were when Ministers made the commitment in 2021.
On a more general point about targets in the regulations, the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville, touched on the issue of consultation. We have heard from several speakers tonight that about 90% of those consulted thought the targets were not ambitious enough.
When I look up a definition of “consultation”, it normally means you listen, you take on board what has been said and you do something to respond to it. Are the Government just going to plough ahead, regardless of what is in the consultation? It is probably wasting public money having consultations in the first place. I remember as a Minister, the first question I would ask when we were consulted was, “Are we going to change our minds on anything?” If I was told, “Well, the policy is settled, Minister”, then why are you going to have that consultation? The Government need to take that back and think about the terms they use and if they are serious.
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I have just a couple of further points. During the considerations we had here on the Environment Bill, which the noble Baronesses, Lady Jones and Lady Hayman, will remember well, the House opted not to press amendments—at that time, they were on issues such as the condition of peat bogs and chalk streams—on the basis that they would be dealt with in future targets. Those amendments were not pressed because we had assurances from the Minister. Is he able to confirm tonight—or he may want to write to us on this point—that because we were persuaded and trusted in Ministers’ commitments at the time that these issues would be dealt with in later future targets, all those areas, in which we did not vote on our amendments, will be explicitly addressed when the Government publish their first review, as he has mentioned, by the end of the month.
On the interim targets, does the Minister think that they are sufficiently ambitious? More importantly, if they show either that they are being met very easily, or they are not being met, is there some flexibility to adjust them at that point? That seems to be the ideal time to increase the ambition and address the points that my noble friend Lady Young made.
It is disappointing. The noble Lord will have heard that there is good will on this side to make this work. It is a serious issue; we recognise the problems, as the Government do, but it comes down to the political will and commitment to do something about it.
I hope the Government will take note of my final point. It is a comment by the chair of the Office for Environmental Protection, Dame Glenys Stacey, who said:
“Our assessment shows that the current pace and scale of action will not deliver the changes necessary to significantly improve the environment in England”.
I think that indicates that the regulatory foresight is not good enough. If the Government can go some way to addressing the questions that have been raised tonight, it might help provide some reassurance, but ultimately this is not good enough and it has to be better.