National Security Bill

My Lords, I venture a few thoughts on this phraseology. The crucial question is: how much would t...

My Lords, I rise to support my noble friend and have added my name to these amendments. I apologi...

My Lords, the amendments in this group, tabled by the noble Lords, Lord Marks and Lord Purvis, in...

My Lords, I thank noble Lords for their broad support for the Bill and the noble Lord, Lord Marks...

I want to make it quite clear that, for the reason that was expressed earlier, I do not object to...

I thank the noble and learned Lord for that clarification. I do not think the clause is imputing ...

Of course, as long as it is on the basis of the point that my noble friend raised—that we will ha...

I understand where the noble Lord is coming from. I commit to making sure that we explain that in...

My Lords, I shall certainly withdraw the amendment at this stage at the end of what I have to say...

Moved by

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames

2: Clause 1, page 1, line 10, after “or” inse...

My Lords, our amendments in this group would all tighten the definition of the

“interests o...

My Lords, I will make some simple arguments, because there are other noble Lords who can make muc...

My Lords, I have reservations about this amendment, because it seems to me that, for the reasons ...

My Lords, I understand entirely what the noble Lord, Lord Evans, has said about the grey area, an...

My Lords, there is an important principle at heart here. While I appreciate the description of th...

My Lords, I agree absolutely with the Government’s aim in that there are certain British interest...

My Lords, one of the considerations of the kind referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, is, ...

My Lords, I support my noble friend’s amendments. I respect the issue of the grey area of tactics...

My Lords, this is a very important group of amendments which in many ways goes to the heart of mu...

I entirely understand why the noble Lord is concerned about any uncertainty in these provisions, ...

I agree; I am just making the point that a definition would also help and give us certainty and c...

My Lords, I agree with the thrust of the noble Lord’s argument. I was just reflecting on the inte...

That is quite right. As I said, the problem with the Bill is that there is no indication of what ...

My Lords, once again, this was a helpful debate, as noted by the noble Lord, Lord Coaker. I thank...

I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. I want to test the issue with regard to economic ac...

If noble Lords will bear with me, I am going to address that point.

I was saying what safeg...

My Lords, I entirely understand the position taken by the noble Lord, Lord Evans of Weardale, but...

The noble Lord is quite right; I should have said that, and I meant to. I apologise to the Commit...

I am quite sure that no apology was needed for what was plainly a slip in a detailed speech made ...

Moved by

Baroness Ludford

4: Clause 1, page 1, line 15, after “article” insert “with ...

My Lords, the debate on Amendment 4 flows fairly naturally from the previous debate. The amendmen...

My Lords, our Amendment 6 would omit Clause 1(2)(b). Your Lordships will know by now that Clause ...

My Lords, I apologise for not being present at Second Reading. I cannot even claim, like the nobl...

My Lords, this group relates to the new offence of obtaining or disclosing protected information....

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords, and the noble Baroness, for their contributions to this short ...

The “foreign power” test, which we will come on to later in the Bill, is extremely broad. Under C...

It would be the case only if those three tests that I have just described are met for the purpose...

Following up on my noble friend Lord Purvis’s question, would it not probably be in the interests...

I find the hypothetical example that the noble Lord postulates hard to follow, because it seems d...

I would just like to make sure the Minister is very clear with the Committee. All the decisions t...

It is the intention to benefit that foreign power that is in this Bill, and it seems to me that t...

My Lords, I was just looking up to see whether the words “intended to benefit a foreign power” we...

I think my noble friend and I are reading the same version of the Bill, but I am not sure the Min...

I thank my noble friend very much for that extremely useful intervention. I think we will have fu...

Moved by

Baroness Ludford

8: Clause 2, page 2, line 18, at end insert—

“(ca) th...

My Lords, this is a JCHR-recommended amendment under Clause 2, which is about making it an offenc...

My Lords, I rise with some trepidation to disagree with these amendments, for reasons that I will...

I respectfully disagree with the noble Lord, Lord Carlile. He may well be able to make a compelli...

My Lords, if this is an intervention, could the noble Lord make his point, please?

The noble Lord asked to make an intervention, which is why I allowed him to, and I regret that he...

My Lords—

No, I am not letting the noble Lord in now. I am sure he will make a speech if he wishes to in a ...

I am very sorry. I apologise to the noble Lord and the Committee; I thought he had sat down, and ...

My Lords, the noble Lord obviously did not know that the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, had not sat do...

I am grateful to the noble Lord for giving way. The National Security and Investment Act 2021 dea...

I am reassured. I declare a certain interest: I have a number of relatives in aspects of scientif...

Baroness Manningham-Buller (CB):

I will not take very long; I will...

Lord Macdonald of River Glaven (CB):

My Lords, on the minor tiff b...

My Lords, I had two points to make, the first of which, about foreign power, has just been made b...

My Lords, I have not yet spoken to Amendments 9 and 10, which I was proposing to do before my nob...

I have been listening very carefully to the noble Lord, whom I always listen to with great respec...

I am bound to say that I discussed that before the noble Lord came in. Since, in my opening speec...

My Lords, I will very briefly follow my noble friends to agree with that proposition. There has b...

My Lords, the amendments in this group relate to the new offences of obtaining or disclosing trad...

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have participated in another lively and entertaining debate...

I am not going to disagree with the Minister, but on the question of the letter—and I am pleased ...

Yes, I am happy to give that reassurance. This is just me flying somewhat solo, so I shall clarif...

My Lords, that was another interesting debate. I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Pannick...

Moved by

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames

12: Clause 3, page 3, line 23, at end insert—...

My Lords, the amendments in this group would add a mental element of intention to prejudice the s...

I have watched quite a number of debates in your Lordships’ House and am always struck that the G...

My Lords, I will speak to Amendments 16 and 21. I will get a bit repetitive in the debates on thi...

Baroness Manningham-Buller (CB):

I may have misunderstood the nobl...

It is possible that I gabbled. I would not suggest that the French intelligence authorities would...

Baroness Manningham-Buller (CB):

I assure the noble Baroness that ...

Of course; the example in the JCHR report was of a French national in the UK—an ordinary person w...

My Lords, I share the concerns expressed by the noble Lord, Lord Marks, and the noble Baroness, L...

Baroness Manningham-Buller (CB):

My Lords, I understand the wish o...

Lord Hacking (Lab):

My Lords, I have been out of the House for abo...

My Lords, we all hope that the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, will not be criminalised by this Bill, b...

My Lords, I thank noble Lords for another very interesting short debate. These amendments seek to...

The Minister has the advantage of having read the Government’s response to the JCHR report. As a ...

As I sought to explain to the Committee, the Clause 5 offence can be committed only where a perso...

Can I respectfully ask the Minister to write to me before Report, and place a copy in the Library...

I will endeavour to make sure that that letter goes to the noble Lord as soon as it is prepared.<...

I have a genuine query. The Minister referenced a number of times, as I think was cited, that if ...

The activity itself is made unlawful in the provisions of the Bill. Is that the point that the no...

So it is unlawful for a foreign intelligence service to carry out any activities within the UK if...

As the noble Lord is aware, it is the effect of Clause 2 to prohibit the offences of espionage an...

I am grateful to the Minister; I am purely seeking clarification for the benefit of my own ignora...

I note the noble Lord’s remarks. I am not entirely sure that I follow the logic, but I will study...

My Lords, the Minister has given no quarter. I suppose that is to be expected on the first day of...

Realistic.

“Realistic” is better than “reasonable”; the noble Lord knows far better than I what the test is....

Moved by

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames

13: Clause 3, page 3, line 25, leave out “it ...

My Lords, this group contains only Amendment 13. That said, there ought to be two amendments, bec...

My Lords, I too have a question to ask about this. I thank my noble friend for introducing these ...

My Lords, as the noble Lord, Lord Marks, mentioned, there should be a second amendment to go with...

My Lords, Amendment 13 seeks to narrow the scope of the offence provided for in Clause 3(2). For ...

My reading of it is that, taking the defence in Clause 3(7)(b) as an example, if I was providing ...

My Lords, my reading of it is not the same as the noble Lord’s, but I will seek clarification and...

I was going to ask the Minister something before he sat down, but he sat down so fast.

My c...

Moved by

Baroness Ludford

23: Clause 6, page 6, line 18, leave out paragraph (c)

My Lords, the offences and powers in Part 1 of the Bill, which are about entering a prohibited pl...

My Lords, I have three amendments in this group. I suppose I should declare interests in relation...

My Lords, anybody watching a wonderful BBC documentary series about Ordnance Survey maps a few ye...

I thank noble Lords for their contributions to this short debate. I will first speak to Amendment...

I have two quick questions for the Minister. I was grateful for his response to me with regard to...

Yes. My suspicion is that both answers are in the affirmative, but I am afraid I do not know for ...

My Lords, I am quite disappointed by the Minister’s responses on this. There are considerable dan...

My Lords, the amendments in this group span Clauses 6 to 11 and cover the new offences of

“...