My Lords, I too would like to start by reiterating the backing of the Opposition for the Government’s support for the people of Ukraine, and of course these sanctions are a vital element of that support. I am pleased to see such a
wide range of issues being covered in today’s measures, which the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, has mentioned. We support these sanctions and measures, but it is only right that this House can scrutinise and understand whether the Government are properly resourcing them. It is one thing having the law; it is another thing to be able to ensure full compliance. I think a lot of my questions will echo those of the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, regarding that question.
In the other place, the Minister Jesse Norman stressed —and I accept this—that
“the first instinct in a war situation is to get sanctions on the books as quickly as possible.”
I noticed what the noble Lord said regarding the Joint Committee, and of course we even had amendments to our Standing Orders to ensure that we could get these in place as quickly as possible. I reassure the Minister that the Opposition will do whatever they can to ensure speedy implementation and adoption of these sanctions.
Jesse Norman also argued that the sanctions
“have been effective because the Treasury Committee has reminded us of that, and we have plenty of other evidence that it is the case.”
I would echo the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, that it would be good to have that assessment in a more political context so that we can properly understand it.
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Jesse Norman also acknowledged that
“as the situation evolves so we need to evolve the response, and as the concerns about the humanitarian impact and unfairness evolve, the sanctions picture inevitably becomes not merely more widespread and more expensive, but more complex”.—[Official Report, Commons, 22/9/22; col. 919]
But, as my honourable friend Stephen Doughty pointed out, Putin and his cronies will seek every single loophole, omission and error that we may make to try and circumvent the objectives of our sanctions. We must not allow him to do that. We have stressed in many previous sanctions debates—the Minister will recall my previous comments on this—that it is critical that we properly resource those units in the FCDO and elsewhere to ensure that they are able not only to draft the appropriate legislation properly but to ensure that we have a proper regime with proper compliance.
In May, James Cleverly—then a Minister, now the Foreign Secretary—told Stephen Doughty that 150 individuals were working full-time in the sanctions taskforce in the FCDO and that the Office of Financial Sanctions Implementation had at least doubled in size. He tried to get further clarity about the resourcing going on, and how this is increasing, particularly with sanctions getting more complex. He was promised a written response, but sadly he did not get that—Jesse Norman did say in the other place that he will ensure that a letter is sent. Jesse Norman also talked about resourcing and referred to
“the increase in the size of OFSI, and that is matched by the seriousness with which this issue is taken across Government.”—[Official Report, Commons, 22/9/22; col. 920]
I hope that the Minister will tonight be able to perhaps put a bit more meat on this and give us a more detailed response about our capability and capacity.
In fact, let me put that a different way. I have full support for the staff in the FCDO—I think we have got some of the best experts, and I certainly admire their commitment and dedication—but capacity is going to be a critical issue that we need to address. What extra financial resources have been given to those bodies? What conversations has the Minister had with the National Crime Agency to ensure the proper enforcement against those who breach the sanctions regime?
In the previous debate, as the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, has said, we have both focused on the circumvention of sanctions, and not only on those issues that the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, has mentioned in terms of India. We have also had in the debate in the Commons the question of steel and how that is being exported to one country and then potentially imported to here, so there are areas that we obviously need to consider.
Also, how much of those resources that were in this country have been able to leak or escape? What assessment have the Government made of where those oligarchs are moving their money to? When I was in a meeting in the City recently, I heard talk about how there was this sudden surge of movement into Istanbul—I do not think that it is just people who are moving there; other issues are occurring, and that was the impression I got from the City. Of course, the press reported today about how Hong Kong is now becoming a key area for resources, both physical and financial. What assessment have the Government made of that?
The noble Lord referred tonight to how we are addressing those gaps and working with our allies to do so. As my honourable friend Stephen Doughty said in the other place, it is crucial that we work with some of the best minds around the world to look at other areas where we can bring pressure to bear. My honourable friend mentioned McFaul, the former US ambassador to Russia, and others, including those from the Ukrainian Government, who have a working group looking at additional ways to expand sanctions and make them tougher. Jesse Norman did not answer my honourable friend’s question on this. Apparently, we have no representation on that working group and are not involved in it—perhaps the noble Lord can tell us why that is the case. I hope we will ensure that we have somebody on that group because we need to lead, along with the United States and others, to ensure that we have the toughest, broadest and deepest regime.
Obviously, in the last few weeks we have seen remarkable progress by the Ukrainian forces in the east and south of the country and an incredible counteroffensive. Indeed, the Ukrainians have shown extraordinary courage, strength and ingenuity in the face of Russian aggression, so it is even more important than ever to show our firm resolve to stand behind Ukraine in every way, not only militarily—which we discussed earlier this week—but politically, economically and, of course, diplomatically. One area I know the noble Lord takes really seriously is the crucial element of ensuring that Putin and his cronies face the consequences for their illegal and barbarous actions. The indiscriminate bombing we have seen over the last week is the strongest evidence of why we must do everything to end Putin’s aggression, violence and
cruelty. Sadly, however, we saw earlier evidence of brutality, not only in the scenes of mass graves and torture but in stories of sexual violence. We have the conference on this coming up fairly shortly. I hope that the noble Lord will do whatever he can to ensure that those victims of sexual violence—those voices and that evidence—are also a feature of our conference on the prevention of sexual violence in conflict.
I will not go on much further; I echo the comments on some of the details of these sanctions. The thrust of our contribution tonight is that it is good that we have and are adapting the sanctions—but let us make sure that we are vigilant in enforcing them in the best way possible.