UK Parliament / Open data

Elections Bill

Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bills on Thursday, 17 March 2022, in the House of Lords.
Lords committee stage third day. Clause 27 agreed to as amended. Clause 1 under consideration. (Part 2 of 2).

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

820 cc505-570 

Session

2021-22

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber
Elections Bill 2021-22. Brought from the Commons.
Tuesday, 18 January 2022
Bills
House of Lords
Elections Bill
Thursday, 17 March 2022
Parliamentary proceedings
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2022-0370
Wednesday, 6 April 2022
Deposited papers
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord Collins of Highbury | 820 cc505-6 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Collins of Highbury

52: Clause 27, leave out Clause 27 and insert the f...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 820 cc506-510 (Link to this contribution)

It’s that man again, as they say.

Despite the urgings of the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, on t...


Show all contributions (123)
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 820 c510 (Link to this contribution)

The faith groups will be particularly affected, particularly the Quakers, because of the nature o...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 820 cc510-1 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the noble Lord for saying that. Over the last few weeks, I trawled through all o...

Lord Woodley | 820 cc511-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support Amendment 52 in the name of my noble friend Lord Collins. He eloquently expla...

Lord Mann | 820 cc512-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, when dealing with election law, it is always worth looking at unintended consequences. ...

Lord Kerslake | 820 cc513-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will keep my remarks on this group to a minimum, because I have a similar amendment c...

Lord Hendy | 820 cc514-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, for the reasons explained by my noble friends Lord Collins and Lord Woodley, Clause 27 ...

Lord Harris of Haringey | 820 cc515-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, when I first came into this place, I found it surprising that noble Lords from the othe...

Lord Stunell | 820 cc516-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I think that it might be my turn now. First, I apologise for not being in the House for...

Lord True | 820 cc518-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken. I venture to say that I am unable to ...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 820 c519 (Link to this contribution)

Just on that point—before the Lib Dems jump up in shock and horror—in that case the one organisat...

Lord True | 820 c520 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I was coming on to say that. While Clause 22 will ban the same organisation from appear...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 820 c520 (Link to this contribution)

May I ask a question? The Minister refers to concern down the other end. I also wish to express c...

Lord True | 820 cc521-2 (Link to this contribution)

I accept the point made by the noble Lord about the wider ambit of negative campaigning, and I ho...

Lord Lea of Crondall | 820 c522 (Link to this contribution)

Before the noble Lord sits down, would he reflect on the fact that the last two hours have been a...

Lord Scriven | 820 c522 (Link to this contribution)

Before the Minister answers that, could I gently remind Members that it is within the Companion a...

Lord True | 820 c522 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will not follow that. The House is master of its own procedures, but it is up to thos...

Lord Harris of Haringey | 820 c522 (Link to this contribution)

Could I just clarify what the Minister has said? First, I am not sure that he has yet satisfied t...

Lord True | 820 c523 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the noble Lord is a very experienced Member of the House and he knows that a Minister a...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 820 c523 (Link to this contribution)

One of the problems that we have had, and I raised this at Second Reading, is the failure to prop...

Lord True | 820 c523 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I gave that undertaking in my speech. I accept the reproof but I say to the noble Lord ...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 820 c523 (Link to this contribution)

But timing is of the essence, and we are being pushed. There is a reason why this House’s scrutin...

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride | 820 c524 (Link to this contribution)

Does the noble Lord beg leave to withdraw the amendment?

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 820 cc524-5 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts

54A: After Clause 27, insert the following ne...

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 820 cc525-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I did not intervene in the last serious and lengthy debate. I understood how seriously ...

Lord Blunkett | 820 cc528-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I put my name to the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, in full knowledge of hi...

Lord Kerslake | 820 cc529-530 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to speak in favour of my Amendment 54 B. There is a lot to commend in the amendm...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 820 c530 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we on these Benches hope that the Government will be willing not only to listen but to ...

Lord Mann | 820 cc530-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, made a distinguished contribution, based on his great exp...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 820 c531 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am not an expert on dining clubs, working men’s club or gentlemen’s clubs. Sadly, in ...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 820 cc531-2 (Link to this contribution)

I will get advice from my noble friend on that afterwards.

I am concerned about third parti...

Lord Collins of Highbury | 820 cc532-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I welcome this. I recall the days when the noble Lord, Lord Mann, was telling general s...

Lord True | 820 c533 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it has been an interesting short debate. I would be working against the Government’s in...

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 820 cc533-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to noble Lords who have spoken in favour of my amendment: to the noble Lo...

Baroness Hayman of Ullock | 820 c534 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Hayman of Ullock

55: Clause 1, page 1, line 6, at end insert—

Baroness Hayman of Ullock | 820 cc534-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we now move back to the beginning of the Bill, to Clause 1 on voter identification and ...

Baroness Meacher | 820 c537 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am not going to take anything but a tiny bit of your Lordships’ time. The noble Baron...

Baroness Noakes | 820 c538 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the noble Baroness made some interesting points about the issues that will face local g...

Lord Woolley of Woodford | 820 cc538-540 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, waiting five hours to speak, you can get a bit anxious. I am not quite sure how you do ...

Baroness Verma | 820 c540 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I did not want to be here either today, because of my fractured foot. The noble Lord, L...

Baroness Pinnock | 820 c540 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, what a wonderful, emotional, eloquent contribution from the noble Lord, Lord Woolley. I...

Baroness Verma | 820 c541 (Link to this contribution)

I am tired of this divisiveness that keeps coming up. We have been in this country for a very lon...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 820 c541 (Link to this contribution)

I have found this absolutely fascinating—I genuinely have. This is not a rhetorical point. I unde...

Baroness Pinnock | 820 cc541-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, there was no intention on my part at all to create any division within our communities....

Lord Grocott | 820 cc542-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, would it not have been nice if, when the noble Lord, Lord Woolley, finished, we could h...

Viscount Stansgate | 820 cc543-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in a previous debate on this Bill, I heard my noble friend say that he would not have w...

Viscount Stansgate | 820 c544 (Link to this contribution)

Sorry? There was a huge collection of different communities. But it is really essential that we e...

Lord Rennard | 820 cc544-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the amendments from the noble Baronesses, Lady Hayman and Lady Meacher, and the noble L...

Lord Scriven | 820 cc546-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have listened to this debate with a sense of bewilderment and admiration, but I am st...

Lord Eatwell | 820 cc547-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, there is a great temptation to stray into clause stand part issues, which we shall deba...

Lord Hayward | 820 c548 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord spoke about reducing turnout. Can he identify the evidence that shows that the int...

Lord Eatwell | 820 c548 (Link to this contribution)

I refer the noble Lord to the evidence mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Woolley, and the study b...

Lord Woolley of Woodford | 820 c548 (Link to this contribution)

To answer the noble Lord’s question, I was citing the review of voter ID from the local elections...

Lord Eatwell | 820 c548 (Link to this contribution)

As I was saying to the noble Lord, an accurate study to achieve a careful assessment of the impac...

Baroness Noakes | 820 c549 (Link to this contribution)

Does the noble Lord believe that this will be a permanent or a temporary effect? As my noble frie...

Lord Eatwell | 820 c549 (Link to this contribution)

I think the noble Baroness would agree that the electoral issues in Northern Ireland are rather d...

Baroness Scott of Bybrook | 820 cc549-550 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank noble Lords for that long, thought-provoking and interesting debate. I am sorry...

Lord Scriven | 820 c550 (Link to this contribution)

Can I be clear? The House has heard three times from the Government Front Bench about their manif...

Lord Woolley of Woodford | 820 c550 (Link to this contribution)

With respect, it was not photo ID, it was ID. That also means non-photo ID. I am afraid that the ...

Baroness Scott of Bybrook | 820 c550 (Link to this contribution)

I have listened to what the noble Lord said and will check the detail of the manifesto. I will en...

Lord Grocott | 820 c550 (Link to this contribution)

I will not intervene again, but I asked the noble Lord, Lord True, whether he could rely on the i...

Baroness Scott of Bybrook | 820 c551 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am sure that any good electoral system can always be improved and that is exactly wha...

Lord Scriven | 820 c551 (Link to this contribution)

It is really important that we have a level playing field here. Of the countries that the Ministe...

Baroness Scott of Bybrook | 820 c551 (Link to this contribution)

I do not know about mandatory ID cards. All I know is that they have to use voter identification ...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 820 c551 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry to interrupt but surely the important thing is that if they already have to have an ID...

Baroness Scott of Bybrook | 820 c551 (Link to this contribution)

I do not agree with that. I do not think that is necessary. It is in the government manifesto and...

Lord Rennard | 820 c551 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry to interrupt the noble Baroness in her flow but the implication is that a vote is take...

Baroness Scott of Bybrook | 820 c551 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, that is if anybody goes back because they have not been intimidated into not going in t...

Lord Eatwell | 820 c551 (Link to this contribution)

Will the noble Baroness explain the relationship between intimidation and the intimidating need t...

Baroness Scott of Bybrook | 820 c552 (Link to this contribution)

You need to do both. We are trying to make sure that people in the communities that my noble frie...

Lord Maxton | 820 c552 (Link to this contribution)

I am very reluctant to speak, because I have sat through most of this and I did not take part in ...

Baroness Scott of Bybrook | 820 c552 (Link to this contribution)

If you have the necessary photo ID and your name is on that electoral register—

Lord Maxton | 820 c552 (Link to this contribution)

But surely most countries that the noble Baroness has already said are part and parcel of the ext...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 820 c552 (Link to this contribution)

This might be helpful, because we were wondering what was in the manifesto. In fact, the Joint Co...

Lord Scriven | 820 c552 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister might have inadvertently misled the Committee from the Dispatch Box in the figures s...

Baroness Scott of Bybrook | 820 c552 (Link to this contribution)

I am quoting from the 2021 Electoral Commission winter tracker, which was clear that the majority...

Lord Scriven | 820 c552 (Link to this contribution)

The pilot was done in 2019. These are people who actually had the photo ID. When there was photo ...

Baroness Scott of Bybrook | 820 c553 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord is conveniently ignoring the experience from Northern Ireland, which is better tha...

Lord Scriven | 820 c553 (Link to this contribution)

I will answer the Minister directly. The Northern Ireland experience shows that between 2% and 3%...

Baroness Scott of Bybrook | 820 c553 (Link to this contribution)

I want to move on, rather than discussing different pieces of information. I will move on to cost...

Baroness Hayman of Ullock | 820 c553 (Link to this contribution)

I specifically asked about education programmes, the rollout of information and how people were g...

Baroness Scott of Bybrook | 820 cc553-4 (Link to this contribution)

As I said, the Electoral Commission has agreed to do much of this. I will come to local authoriti...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 820 c554 (Link to this contribution)

I want just to check on the question which has already been raised about the extra security costs...

Baroness Scott of Bybrook | 820 cc554-5 (Link to this contribution)

I cannot tell the noble Lord whether that has been factored in. I will ask the team and come back...

Baroness Hayman of Ullock | 820 cc555-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this debate has ranged rather wide of the area covered by my amendments, to say the lea...

Lord True | 820 c556 (Link to this contribution)

In the Queen’s Speech in October 2019, the Government announced that they would introduce legisla...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 820 c556 (Link to this contribution)

The Queen’s Speech and the manifesto are different things, and the manifesto did not say “photo i...

Baroness Hayman of Ullock | 820 c556 (Link to this contribution)

That is correct. I appreciate what the Minister said about the Queen’s Speech, but, again, my nob...

Lord True | 820 c556 (Link to this contribution)

That was the Queen’s Speech before, not after, the general election. It was established before th...

Baroness Hayman of Ullock | 820 c556 (Link to this contribution)

In that case, can the Minister explain why it was not detailed in the manifesto?

Lord True | 820 c556 (Link to this contribution)

That is because the manifesto referred to clearly established and announced policy on voter ident...

Baroness Hayman of Ullock | 820 c556 (Link to this contribution)

In that case, I will come back to the pilot schemes. If the Government were intending to introduc...

Lord True | 820 c556 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I think that we should make progress—

Lord True | 820 c556 (Link to this contribution)

Certain pilot schemes, which we have discussed, involve photo ID. I should leave it to my colleag...

Baroness Hayman of Ullock | 820 c557 (Link to this contribution)

Fair enough—we will move on. I will go back to my amendments and discuss cost, which is where we ...

Baroness Scott of Bybrook | 820 c557 (Link to this contribution)

Let me respond to that. I was not talking about modelling; I was talking about groupings and comm...

Baroness Hayman of Ullock | 820 c558 (Link to this contribution)

Modelling was mentioned, but I appreciate that clarification from the noble Baroness. Again, the ...

Baroness Hayman of Ullock | 820 c558 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Hayman of Ullock

56: Clause 1, page 1, line 6, at end insert—

Baroness Hayman of Ullock | 820 cc558-560 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have a number of amendments in this group. I thank noble Lords who have been supporti...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 820 cc560-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support this group, and I will speak specifically to Amendments 58 and 59, to which I...

Baroness Meacher | 820 cc562-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise in support of Amendments 56 to 60 in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 820 cc563-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, to vote is a fundamental right. It is not a new-age right invented the other day; it is...

Lord Woolley of Woodford | 820 c565 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support the amendments tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman. Seven hours ago, wh...

Lord Kerslake | 820 cc565-6 (Link to this contribution)

Given the lateness of the hour, I hesitate to come in now, but I feel passionately about the impo...

Viscount Stansgate | 820 c566 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I hope that the noble Lord’s back, after seven hours, recovers. I was one of some Membe...

Lord Scriven | 820 cc566-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, listening to this debate, it is quite obvious that some groups of people are less likel...

Baroness Scott of Bybrook | 820 cc567-8 (Link to this contribution)

I thank all noble Lords for an interesting debate. I shall respond to a couple of things straight...

Lord Kerslake | 820 c568 (Link to this contribution)

I asked a specific question as to whether the Minister had met the London Voices project and, if ...

Baroness Scott of Bybrook | 820 c568 (Link to this contribution)

We will write to the noble Lord. We have met, but I shall make sure that we give the noble Lord a...

Lord Scriven | 820 c568 (Link to this contribution)

I know that it is very late, so I shall be quick. The Minister skipped over this, and it is quite...

Baroness Scott of Bybrook | 820 c568 (Link to this contribution)

I can confirm that we have not done that impact analysis. The important impact will be after.

...
Baroness Meacher | 820 c568 (Link to this contribution)

The issue of impacting the outcome of elections is seriously important. Will the Minister go away...

Baroness Hayman of Ullock | 820 cc569-570 (Link to this contribution)

I thank all noble Lords who have spoken in the debate. I am grateful for the wide support for the...

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