My Lords, what a powerful debate we have just had on what is one of the most important parts of the Bill. The noble Lord, Lord Paddick, spoke about wishing that we could inform the public. I sometimes wish—I do not know how you would do it, unless you put it on live television—that the public could hear more of the speeches made in places like this. That would inform the debate and take it forward in a way that allowed people to make their own mind up. It is disappointing that it does not happen.
It is important, in this context, to remind ourselves that we are all wrestling with how we deal with refugees, family reunion and resettlement schemes. The point made by the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, needs to be repeated time and again: this is not about immigration, it is about refugees fleeing persecution and about asylum. That is extremely important.
The noble Lord, Lord Alton, was also right, with his Amendment 51, to remind us of some of the people who need support.
In speaking to her Amendment 50, my noble friend Lady Kennedy referred movingly to her work to support the judges in Afghanistan. She has dedicated her life to trying to do something for people in such situations.
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We support the amendment of the noble Baroness, Lady Stroud, and the global resettlement programme that she announced. When the noble Baroness was talking, I wondered whether, in the light of what has happened in Ukraine and the movement of people in all parts of the world, there are the statesmen and stateswomen who could come together to create another 1951 refugee convention. It strikes me that perhaps it is time for the world to come together to understand what we should do about the movement of people across the globe, whether that be through war or famine or whatever. Essentially, this group of amendments—and the issue the Government are wrestling with—is about how we respond to that. The various amendments before us are seeking, in their own ways, to deal with that problem.
Above all, none of us could fail to be moved by my noble friend Lord Dubs. The passion and power that he brought to this issue moved us all and was a challenge to us all. Whether we agree with the amendment or not, what are we going to do about what is a very real situation? As we stand here in this Chamber and debate this, there are unaccompanied children who have nowhere to go. There are people fleeing persecution and war, people facing genocide, who have nowhere to go. That is the reality of what we face and what we are seeking to deal with.
To be fair to the Government, I know that the Minister will describe what they are doing about this issue and refer to the extension to the Ukraine scheme, which we all welcome. As the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Durham said, we obviously need to understand the details of the Government’s proposal. Interestingly, following pressure from this House and
the other place, the Government have incrementally improved and extended their offer, which shows the importance of debate and discussion.
We strongly support my noble friend Lord Dubs’ Amendment 48 and will encourage noble Lords and Baronesses to vote for it, should it be put to a vote. Families are split across Europe, and children who seek safety with family members are at very high risk of taking dangerous journeys across the channel and elsewhere to be reunited with their loved ones. Time and again, as noble Lords have said, the lack of safe and legal routes is at the heart of the problem. If those are not put in place, people will seek alternatives—I would; anybody would—so between us, we have to find safe and legal routes. As my noble friend Lord Dubs pointed out, the Government recently closed those safe routes for children. They ended the Dubs scheme, and we need to hear from the Minister what is going to replace it.
On the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Kirkhope, spoken to by the noble Baroness, Lady Stroud, it is vital to mention that 10,000 is approximately the number the Prime Minister previously committed to. He said that the 5,000 people a year resettled under the Afghan citizens resettlement scheme would be in addition to previous commitment to resettle 5,000. The crucial thing is to have a well prepared and flexible resettlement capacity which can react as needed. This week is a reminder of the reality of that and, as I say, it is good to hear from the Minister that the Government have moved on this.
We used to be a leading country in Europe on resettlement but that has not been the case for the past few years; we now need the Government to commit to our having not just a proud past on resettlement, but a proud future. The Afghan citizens resettlement scheme took five months to get up and running; we need to look at that and understand how we can move much quicker.
On the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Alton, of course we need to do something about genocide. He knows that we have some concerns about the detail, and it would be for the Government to sort out how it would work in practice, but we unequivocally support the principle of what the noble Lord is trying to do.
I go back to the key point of the debate on all the amendments before the Chamber. The lack of safe and legal routes is at the heart of this, and the amendments seek to address the particular problems that arise from that. As we see with the Ukrainian crisis and other crises, there will be a need at some point for greater international co-operation across not just Europe but the world to deal with this ever-increasing movement of people as they flee persecution, war and famine.
Many of these amendments are worthy of support and I hope the Government listen to what has been said. I will finish with this: when the Government are told by everybody that there is a problem with the legislation before us and they need to change some of it, it is sometimes a good idea for them to listen.