UK Parliament / Open data

Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (Entry to Venues and Events) (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2021

The Government believe that the measures we are debating today are balanced and proportionate responses to the virus. Mandatory vaccine or test certification was brought in as part of the plan B measures to control the transmission of the omicron variant. Test, trace and self-isolation remains an important line of defence, but we will continue to keep our approach under review as we learn more about the virus and the effectiveness of the vaccine. In the department and in government, I always ask my officials and others what the evidence is. It is incredibly important that we are evidence-led.

Sometimes we opened up and then we closed down and so on, but we did not go back into lockdown. What it was about for us was making sure that the evidence was robust enough, challenging it and the models that we were given, but considering the wider responses. It was far more than a matter of considering just one model in our daily omicron meetings over the Christmas break. We were shown the models and the data. The models were scenarios, as the noble

Baroness, Lady Brinton, said; they did not have to consider the wider impact and looked purely at the data. We politicians and others had to consider the wider impact on health—let us not forget the impact that further measures would have had on mental health, people with eating disorders and those with obesity and other issues. We also had to balance those carefully with the wider societal issues such as the impact on businesses and so on.

When the data showed that there was a potential risk of overwhelming the NHS, we had to act and bring in some measures. However, compared to many other countries, we were still relatively open. Believe me, I am a civil libertarian, as the noble Baroness, Lady Fox, whom I have known from years ago, will, I am sure, know. I am always sceptical when government tells us to do things, but these measures were evidence and data led. The latest data shows that Covid-19 cases are falling, and the high levels of vaccination and booster uptake have helped to reduce the risk of severe disease and hospitalisations. That, in turn, is helping to reduce the pressure on the NHS.

Let me turn to some of the points raised by noble Lords—first, those of the noble Lord, Lord Jones, who is the original noble Lord, Lord Jones, as he reminded me. I thank him for his kind words. He rightly said that these regulations are necessary, and I echo his thanks to all those in health and social care who have worked so hard throughout the pandemic and helped deliver an extremely successful vaccine rollout.

While I have the floor, I also thank the wider workforce. I was once told that lockdown was when the wealthy, white middle class stayed at home to be served by immigrant workers. Let us not forget all those delivery drivers, including those from Uber, Deliveroo, Just Eat, Amazon and others, who brought stuff to people in lockdown and made sure that they could continue with their lives. We should always remember the wider workforce—the postmen and women who carried on delivering and the public transport workers who carried on despite the risks. We owe them all a great deal of gratitude. However, we also have to thank those in health and social care for enabling the vaccine rollout, as well as the volunteers. One of the great things about this country is our great history, going back many years, of civil society, local society and volunteers. They worked to make sure that those in need and those working in the NHS got some support.

The noble Lord, Lord Jones, asked a number of sensible questions. I am not flattering him in order to avoid answering on vaccine or test certification. The number of fixed penalty notices is not known at this stage, but I will endeavour to get the information that he asked for. I make this commitment: I will write to him once I get that data. I also assure him that there has been extensive consultation with business groups on vaccine or test certification, including the Federation of Small Businesses and the CBI, as well as with the public via a call for evidence. We have also engaged closely with all the devolved Administrations, including the Welsh Government on, for example, sharing the NHS Covid pass with Wales and on the level of fixed

penalty notices, which broadly align. However, as a general concept or principle, one thing that this Government are clear about is that we respect the constitutional settlement and the devolved Administrations. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Health and I have been in meetings with the Health Ministers of the devolved Administrations. Only last week, I chaired a meeting with their relevant Ministers on the UK life sciences strategy, for example, and how we can all work together. Public health is a devolved matter, but we have tried to have a co-ordinated approach wherever it is sensible and appropriate. However, what we cannot do is mandate that just because we can do something in England we expect the devolved Administrations to do the same. That would be disrespectful to them.

5.15 pm

My noble friend Lady Foster raised some important issues about additional support for the NHS. Having sceptics is one of things that is very important in politics. In fact, it is how we make progress. If there are no sceptics who challenge the existing wisdom, we do not make progress. I thank my noble friend for her scepticism, even if we do not always agree. The Government have provided the NHS with a six-month cash boost of £5.5 billion to help manage winter Covid pressures and tackle backlogs, which takes our total extra Covid-19 funding to health and social care services to more than £34 billion this year.

My noble friend asked about the Government’s policy of large-scale testing. We believe that testing remains crucial to help protect the people who are most vulnerable to Covid-19 by identifying those who may unknowingly have the virus. Enabling those who test positive to self-isolate helps to break the chain of transmission. For example, one of my team notified us only yesterday that she had tested positive. I felt it was my responsibility, even if it were not required, to take a test to make sure that when I came into the House today I was not positive—if I had been, I would not have come here—to ensure that I did not irresponsibly spread Covid-19. It is important that we continue to test when we are in contact with someone who has tested positive. Testing also helps to build up a strategic understanding of the prevalence of the virus. One of the great things about PCR tests and the link to individual patients has been the data it provides so that we can understand the spread of the virus and the variants.

My noble friend also raised concerns about the vaccination of children, which are understandable. Only the other day in the Chamber, the Government were criticised for not rolling out vaccinations for children early enough. My answer then was that we had to make sure that before we moved to children we had sufficient data about the most appropriate vaccination for children because their behaviour is clearly different from that of adults. We believe that the vaccination of school pupils helps to reduce the need for young people to have time off school and the risk of spreading Covid-19 within schools. The vaccine will protect young people from Covid-19 and reduce disruption to education, not only if they catch the virus but for their welfare and mental health. I have spoken to a number of

parents—indeed, I am a parent myself. One of the things they say is that during lockdown they were very concerned about the mental health of their children and they are pleased that their children are able to go to school safely because those who are isolated having tested positive will not spread it to them.

I accept my noble friend’s criticism of the restrictions that we have put in place. She called for them to be lifted. We do not think that is appropriate, given the data and evidence that we have at this stage.

The noble Baroness, Lady Fox, asked about vaccination as a condition of deployment. This was first put forward to combat the delta variant. Vaccine effectiveness against that variant has been estimated at around 65% with the AstraZeneca vaccine and 80% with the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine. As the pandemic has evolved, and with the emergence of omicron, the latest data show that after three months a full primary course of an approved vaccine no longer provides the longer-term public health protection against the spread of Covid and severe disease that it was intended to provide. The safest way to develop resistance to the virus is through the Covid-19 vaccine, as it does not come with the risk of severe illness or death, unlike natural infection. As such, we are looking carefully at the evidence and the clinical advice on whether the requirements need to be strengthened to include further doses. As I have said before, the Covid-19 pass is not a vaccine passport. Vaccine status, a recent test or a medical exemption are the ways to gain access.

On the wider point about civil liberties, it is a difficult balance, but it is important that people are allowed to express their criticism. In a free society, whatever we think and no matter how much I may disagree with my noble friend Lady Foster or the noble Baroness, Lady Fox, it is important that they are able to express their views freely so we can have a fair debate in a free society.

However, if anyone goes beyond the bounds of acceptability, if anyone threatens violence or engages in acts of violence—I am not saying that people have done, but a couple of centres have been attacked in this country—that is unacceptable. However, people should be free to say what they believe in a free society, and it is about getting that balance right. I may disagree with someone, but the noble Baroness has a right to disagree with me.

About this proceeding contribution

Reference

817 cc197-201GC 

Session

2021-22

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords Grand Committee
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