My Lords, I thank the Minister for his answer and everyone who has participated in this debate. I share the feeling of the noble Baroness, Lady Burt, about the need to draw a very deep breath before I begin. I think many people in British society would be surprised at the tone of some of the arguments presented this evening by those opposing this amendment. I suspect the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, would feel that some parts of our political landscape have not changed very much in 20 years. However, that is perhaps because there is a feeling that that part of the political landscape is very much swimming against the tide of public opinion—I might even say the tide of history.
I thank the Minister for his offer to pass on a request to the department. I will be pursuing that very vigorously, and I very much hope that we will have a ministerial meeting. These are issues that need to be raised at the highest level, particularly given what is happening in the nations around us. I welcome the Minister’s comments about how much progress is being made in sex and relationship education, something I have long been campaigning on. It is something that needs to be monitored very closely to make sure that it is meeting the needs of our current society.
The noble Lord, Lord Russell, rightly identified the reasons why I was persuaded not to push this further at this moment. This was not on the list of amendments in Committee and it is not normal practice to go further at this stage, but it is obvious that the level of debate is going to be stepped up significantly.
I am aware of the hour, so I shall be brief, but it is worth drawing together the noble Baronesses, all of whom are veterans of this campaign. The noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, made very important points about the context in which this debate is happening, which is the Covid pandemic, and about how we now understand so much more about adverse childhood experiences and their impact on children. That is a reflection of how far the science has moved on in the past two decades. Indeed, the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, who has an expert’s perspective, acknowledged how the current law undermines the Government’s efforts in child welfare and other areas and gave an expert account of what is being seen in our hospitals and by our doctors.
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The noble Baronesses, Lady Finlay and Lady Lister, focused on rights. We are talking about children’s rights to be protected from all forms of violence; that is the crucial issue here. In passing, I offer my support to the noble Baroness, Lady Lister, on the need for a Minister for children. We have seen an acknowledgement of the need for children’s commissioners, which has been hugely valuable, but we need to go a step further, closer to the centre of government.
The noble Baronesses, Lady Hoey and Lady Fox, took issue with the nature of the language that I used. A better response could perhaps be given by one of the noble and learned Members of your Lordships’ House, but from my lay legal knowledge I point out that “battery” is not a rhetorical device but the description of a common law offence under English law. When we talk about violence, we are talking about physical attacks and those are the words that we would use when referring to what happens between two adults. We are talking about exactly the same thing. In fact, we are talking about an interaction that we might see between a very large and heavy adult and a very light, small adult—the imbalance of power is much greater.
I also pick up on the comments of the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, on public opinion in Wales. I am not sure which survey she was referring to, but the Public Attitudes to Physical Punishment of Children: Baseline Survey, 2018 found that 62% of parents and caregivers of children under seven disagreed with smacking. Only 5% of parents strongly agreed that it was necessary. Those are the modern parents to which other noble Baronesses were referring.
I take issue with the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Curry of Kirkharle. I paraphrase slightly but he more or less said, “It happened to 85% of adults in the past and we have turned out all right, haven’t we?” Reflecting, as the whole of our society has been doing, on the level of misogyny and violence against women and girls, I very strongly question that conclusion. I would add, as several noble Baronesses have said, that violence begets violence. We know that that is the factual truth.
To address the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, that all the research was some kind of anthropological activist research, I point out that among the long list of organisations backing a ban on assaults on children, we have the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health, the Royal College of General Practitioners and the Professional Association for Childcare and Early Years. These are not activists or campaigners; they are the professionals who know and are gravely concerned about the well-being of the children in their care.
I am restraining myself, noticing the hour. I will leave this here for the moment, but we are past time in taking this action. It is happening all around us geographically, all around the world. I do not agree with the Minister’s conclusions about complying with the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. I very much hope—indeed, I am confident—that the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, will not need to spend another 20 years campaigning on this issue. In the meantime, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.