My Lords, the contribution just made by the noble Lord, Lord Randall, was very interesting. He stressed the importance of independence but then implied, or said directly, that noble Lords may be being overly cynical about the Government’s intentions with regard to the independence of the commissioner. I say to him that there is good evidence for being cautious about any changes to what the Bill contains which might inhibit the commissioner’s independence.
My noble friend Lord Rooker spoke with great authority, both as a distinguished leader of the Food Standards Agency and, as he said, having served in six departments over 12 years. I too served in six departments, in a slightly shorter time. What I would echo is the important role of the accounting officer. Listening to the noble Lord, Lord Randall, and to my noble friend makes me think that the whole structure of governance and arrangements for the commissioner perhaps need to be revisited on Report. At the moment, we are debating a series of amendments in different groups when I think we need a more concerted debate to look at the whole architecture of the commissioner, their independence, their relationship with the Home Office and issues to do with funding and staffing. At the moment, I feel that we do not quite have a grip on that.
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On the specific amendments, I want to comment on the commissioner reporting to the Secretary of State and their relationship to Parliament. I have no doubt that the Minister will say—and the noble Lord, Lord Randall, referred to this point in the Bill—that the commissioner, having reported to the Secretary of State, must arrange for a copy of any report published under the section we are debating to be laid before Parliament. That is well and good, but my concern is that many reports are laid before Parliament every day. The minutes of our proceedings often contain long lists of papers laid before the House that are not subject to parliamentary proceedings—which is how a report from the commissioner would be treated.
Look at the minutes of proceedings of the House last Thursday. Nine papers are listed nine papers: the accounts of the Great Britain National Insurance Fund; the accounts of the Northern Ireland National Insurance Fund; the accounts of the Dartford-Thurrock river crossing charging scheme; Dame Shirley Pearce’s Independent Review of the Teaching Excellence and Student Outcomes Framework, volumes 1 and 2; the report and accounts of the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority; the report and accounts of the
Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority; the report and accounts of the Money and Pensions Service; the report and accounts of the Valuation Tribunal Service; and the report and financial statements of the Money Advice Service.
Now, these are worthy reports that I am sure are of great interest to the organisations concerned. But how many of us ever get to see them and—to take up the point of the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh—how many are debated? Very few indeed. If a report is laid before your Lordships’ House in this way by the commissioner, there is no guarantee—in fact it is very unlikely—that there will be any mechanism for debating it. It just does not happen that way. This is not just about what is in the Bill; there are some general principles here. Where people hold important posts, such as the domestic abuse commissioner, there needs to be a better way to engage them in Parliament alongside the Select Committees. This is partly to do with the Bill, but also the way that Parliament deals with this itself.
This has been a short but important debate about the architecture underpinning the domestic abuse commissioner. I think noble Lords need to come together to reflect on whether the Bill is right and whether, on Report, we need to look again at ensuring the robust independence of this postholder.