UK Parliament / Open data

Covert Human Intelligence Sources (Criminal Conduct) Bill

Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bills on Thursday, 3 December 2020, in the House of Lords.
Lords committee stage third day. Clause 1 under consideration.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

808 cc851-944 

Session

2019-21

Department

Home Office

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

Hybrid proceedings

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber
Legislative Scrutiny: Covert Human Intelligence Sources (Criminal Conduct) Bill. Human Rights Joint Committee tenth report with formal minutes.
Wednesday, 4 November 2020
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
House of Commons
Covert Human Intelligence Sources (Criminal Conduct) Bill 2019-21. Brought from the Commons.
Monday, 19 October 2020
Bills
House of Lords
Covert Human Intelligence Sources (Criminal Conduct) Bill. Constitution Committee (HL) nineteenth report.
Thursday, 19 November 2020
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2021-0075
Thursday, 28 January 2021
Deposited papers
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord Lexden | 808 c851 (Link to this contribution)

We proceed to the group beginning with Amendment 22. I remind noble Lords that anyone wishing to ...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 808 c851 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Chakrabarti

22: Clause 1, page 2, leave out lines 27 to 30 and inse...


Show all contributions (127)
Baroness Chakrabarti | 808 cc851-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is a pleasure to introduce my noble friend Lord Hendy’s Amendment 22. He is detained...

Baroness Hamwee | 808 cc852-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is clear that there is a lot of unease—I choose a mild term—around the House about t...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 808 cc854-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the amendments in this group pose the important question of when and why the Government...

Baroness Massey of Darwen | 808 cc855-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in speaking to Amendment 25, I shall put the views expressed by the Joint Committee on ...

Lord Lexden | 808 c856 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Hain, whose name appears next on the list, has withdrawn, and the ...

Baroness Bryan of Partick | 808 cc856-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is a real pleasure to take part in this debate. I am sorry that my noble friend Lord...

Lord Judd | 808 cc857-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the dividing line between a police state and a democratic society with a liberal, human...

Lord Lexden | 808 c858 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Baroness, Lady Blower, who appears next on the list, has withdrawn, so I call the noble...

Lord King of Bridgwater | 808 cc858-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, unlike, I think, every other speaker to these amendments so far, I do not support them....

Lord Paddick | 808 cc859-861 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I accept that it is difficult to separate these issues, but I will leave discussion of ...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 808 cc861-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendment 22, moved by my noble friend Lady Chakrabarti with the support of my noble fr...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 808 cc863-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in this debate and pay tribute to anyone wh...

Lord Faulkner of Worcester | 808 c865 (Link to this contribution)

I have received a request to speak from the noble Lord, Lord Paddick.

Lord Paddick | 808 c865 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful for what the Minister has said and appreciate that she has to stick to he...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 808 c865 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord, with whom I am actually good friends, makes a valid point: what is the point in m...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 808 cc1084-867 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to all noble Lords for the care with which they have approached this grou...

Lord Faulkner of Worcester | 808 cc1088-9 (Link to this contribution)

We now come to the group consisting of Amendment 27. I remind noble Lords that anyone wishing to ...

Baroness Hamwee | 808 c1089 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Hamwee

27: Clause 1, page 2, line 30, at end insert “so far as thos...

Baroness Hamwee | 808 cc1089-869 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we have covered a good deal of the ground of Amendment 27 in the previous debate. I wil...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 808 c869 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my name is down to speak on this group of amendments by mistake, but I will take the op...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 808 cc869-870 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, that was a happy accident for the Committee—not that I would ever describe intervention...

Lord Beith | 808 cc870-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendment 27 seeks to qualify the use of the concept of economic well-being as a ground...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 808 cc871-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendment 27 is tabled in the names of the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, and the noble Baro...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 808 cc872-3 (Link to this contribution)

I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in this debate. I will start with the comments of the...

Lord Faulkner of Worcester | 808 c873 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have received no requests to speak after the Minister, so I call the noble Baroness, ...

Baroness Hamwee | 808 c873 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to those noble Lords who have contributed to this debate. My noble friend...

Lord Faulkner of Worcester | 808 c873 (Link to this contribution)

We now come to the group beginning with Amendment 28. I remind noble Lords that anyone wishing to...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 808 cc873-4 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Kennedy of Southwark

28: Clause 1, page 2, line 30, at end insert—

<...
Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 808 cc874-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendment 28 in my name and that of my noble friends Lord Rosser and Lady Clark of Kilw...

Baroness Clark of Kilwinning | 808 c875 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Clark of Kilwinning

29: Clause 1, after “trade unions” insert “or l...

Baroness Clark of Kilwinning | 808 cc875-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak in favour of Amendment 28, to which I have added my name. It seeks to out...

Lord Paddick | 808 cc877-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I start by making it absolutely clear that I do not blame the Minister or those who hav...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 808 cc879-880 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, gave a very graceful explanation of his previous interven...

Lord Judd | 808 cc880-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I declare an interest as a member of a trade union ever since my undergraduate days in ...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 808 cc881-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support Amendment 56A in particular. In the earlier debate on the issue of prior judi...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 808 c882 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I agree with everything that has been said in this group so far. Of course, it comes at...

Lord Morris of Aberavon | 808 cc882-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I wish to speak briefly to Amendment 28, which I support. I was surprised at the breadt...

Baroness Hamwee | 808 cc884-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, if the noble and learned Lord was referring at the beginning of his contribution to the...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 808 cc885-7 (Link to this contribution)

I thank all noble Lords who have spoken on this group of amendments. I start with the point made ...

Lord Bates | 808 c886 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have received one request to speak after the Minister, from the noble Lord, Lord Padd...

Lord Paddick | 808 c886 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister. I have just one question. She said that the scenario I s...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 808 c886 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord will appreciate that not every Bill contains every minute detail of issues such as...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 808 c888 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords for their contributions to this debate, in which we have discus...

Lord Bates | 808 cc888-9 (Link to this contribution)

We now come to the group of amendments beginning with Amendment 34. I remind noble Lords that any...

Baroness Hamwee | 808 c889 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Hamwee

34: Clause 1, page 2, line 36, leave out “(for example, the ...

Baroness Hamwee | 808 cc889-890 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we have both Amendments 34 and 36 in this group, the latter being the substantive amend...

Lord Cormack | 808 cc890-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I do not dissent from what the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, said, but I shall concentra...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 808 cc891-2 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, whose amendment I have signed. It is a v...

Lord Judd | 808 cc892-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak warmly in support of the amendment by the noble Lord, Lord Cormack. It is...

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 808 cc893-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have Amendment 45 in this group, which is slipstreaming along behind Amendment 44 tab...

Baroness D'Souza | 808 cc895-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendment 55 in my name is in this group. The amendment seeks to place on the face of t...

Lord Anderson of Ipswich | 808 cc896-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, these amendments have at their heart the question of whether there should be a list of ...

Baroness Massey of Darwen | 808 cc897-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendment 56 on behalf of the Joint Committee on Human Rights, of whic...

Lord Lexden | 808 c898 (Link to this contribution)

The next speaker on the list, the Lord Bishop of Carlisle, has, sadly, withdrawn, so I call the n...

Lord Dubs | 808 c898 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I was originally not going to be present for this debate, and I left the main thrust of...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 808 cc898-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, like my noble friend Lord Dubs, I can be short in the light of some outstanding contrib...

Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd | 808 c899 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak briefly as my noble friend Lord Anderson of Ipswich has almost precisely ...

Lord Rosser | 808 cc900-1 (Link to this contribution)

There are a number of amendments in this group relating to human rights. They variously provide t...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 808 cc901-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank noble Lords for their very thoughtful contributions to a discussion of the uppe...

Baroness Hamwee | 808 c904 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will pick up a number of points, if I may. First, the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, raise...

Lord Lexden | 808 c905 (Link to this contribution)

We now come to the group beginning with Amendment 39. I remind noble Lords that anyone wishing to...

Lord Dubs | 808 c905 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Dubs

39: Clause 1, page 2, leave out lines 45 to 47 and insert—

“...

Lord Dubs | 808 cc905-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, so far we have been debating the nature of the criminal offences that may or may not be...

Lord Sikka | 808 cc906-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is a great pleasure to speak in this debate. My concern is about authorising corpora...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 808 c907 (Link to this contribution)

I can be brief. My noble friends pose two very important questions that become even more unnervin...

Lord Anderson of Ipswich | 808 cc907-9 (Link to this contribution)

[Inaudible]—the noble Baroness, Lady Chakrabarti. I am less concerned than I think she is by the ...

Lord Paddick | 808 cc909-910 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I share the concerns of the noble Lord, Lord Anderson of Ipswich, about seeking clarity...

Lord Rosser | 808 c910 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendment 39 in the names of my noble friends Lady Massey of Darwen and Lord Dubs remov...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 808 cc910-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank noble Lords who have spoken in this debate.

Amendment 39 seeks clarificat...

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall | 808 c911 (Link to this contribution)

I have received a request to speak after the Minister, and hand signals suggest it may be the nob...

Lord Paddick | 808 c911 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for her explanation. I am not sure I explained myself well enough to her in ...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 808 c1094 (Link to this contribution)

I say again that each situation will be different, but I understand the noble Lord’s point that i...

Lord Dubs | 808 c912 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to all noble Lords who contributed to the debate. I have to lead with wha...

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall | 808 c912 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we come now to the group consisting of Amendment 41. I remind noble Lords that anyone w...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 808 c912 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Chakrabarti

41: Clause 1, page 3, line 2, at end insert “; and

<...
Baroness Chakrabarti | 808 cc912-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this amendment is very simple but, none the less, incredibly important to reassure some...

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall | 808 c913 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Warsi, is not participating in this debate, so I call the next...

Lord Paddick | 808 cc913-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I too signed the amendment, which the noble Baroness, Lady Chakrabarti, has very adequa...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 808 c914 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my contribution on this amendment will be fairly short. I hear the point that my noble ...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 808 cc914-5 (Link to this contribution)

I thank noble Lords. I hope to reassure the noble Baroness, Lady Chakrabarti, and the noble Lord,...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 808 c915 (Link to this contribution)

I apologise: I perhaps have not made myself clear enough. It is late and we have all been at this...

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall | 808 c915 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am afraid that that is not within the rules at present. I apologise to the Minister b...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 808 c915 (Link to this contribution)

I apologise. It is hard to see the Minister’s face or responses from this angle on Zoom. Briefly,...

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall | 808 c915 (Link to this contribution)

Would the Minister care to respond to the noble Baroness, Lady Chakrabarti?

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 808 c916 (Link to this contribution)

I apologise for intervening at an inappropriate moment. I was trying to clarify whether the noble...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 808 c916 (Link to this contribution)

Forgive me, but in the scenario that I have just painted there is no entrapment because nobody is...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 808 c916 (Link to this contribution)

I think that we are coming to the end of this debate, but entrapment in and of itself would have ...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 808 c916 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we can disagree on that, but perhaps before Report the Minister and her colleagues migh...

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall | 808 c916 (Link to this contribution)

We now come to the group beginning with Amendment 43. I remind noble Lords that anyone wishing to...

Lord Young of Cookham | 808 c916 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Young of Cookham

43: Clause 1, page 3, line 2, at end insert—

“( ...

Lord Young of Cookham | 808 cc916-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, along with the noble Baroness, Lady Chakrabarti, the right reverend Prelate the Bishop ...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 808 c919 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is an absolute privilege to follow the noble Lord, Lord Young of Cookham, to associa...

Baroness Hamwee | 808 cc919-920 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord, Lord Young, is very persuasive, and he is right. My noble friends Lord Paddick an...

Bishop of Carlisle | 808 cc920-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I speak in support of Amendment 43, in the names of my right reverend friend the Bishop...

Baroness Bull | 808 cc921-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise principally to support Amendment 43, to which I have added my name, but I fully ...

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 808 cc923-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I speak to Amendment 48 tabled in my name and support all those who have spoken in favo...

Baroness Massey of Darwen | 808 cc924-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I agree with so many of the remarks made today by noble Lords following the powerful an...

Lord Dubs | 808 c926 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, when I originally looked at this Bill and thought about it in relation to children, I f...

Baroness Doocey | 808 cc926-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I wish to speak in favour of Amendment 52. I too support the comments made about childr...

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride | 808 c927 (Link to this contribution)

I call the next speaker, the noble Lord, Lord Judd.

We will go to the noble Baroness, Lady ...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 808 cc927-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this is an issue that I have raised several times in your Lordships’ House: the issue o...

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride | 808 c928 (Link to this contribution)

I call the next speaker, the noble Baroness, Lady Young of Hornsey.

Baroness Young of Hornsey | 808 cc929-931 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am going to try not to repeat comments made by colleagues already. However, I feel it...

Lord McNicol of West Kilbride | 808 c931 (Link to this contribution)

After the noble Lord, Lord Russell of Liverpool, I will call the noble Lord, Lord Judd.

Lord Russell of Liverpool | 808 cc932-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this is a fascinating if somewhat one-sided debate. I will suggest in a minute why I th...

Lord Judd | 808 c933 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank unreservedly the noble Lord, Lord Young of Cookham, for the way in which he int...

Lord Paddick | 808 cc933-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the Committee will not welcome me trying to summarise what has been said, and I could n...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 808 cc934-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this is one of those debates where you can stand up and quite honestly say you agree wi...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 808 cc935-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I start with the words of the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, and absolutely confirm that I f...

Baroness Henig | 808 c939 (Link to this contribution)

I have received requests to speak after the Minister from the noble Lord, Lord Russell of Liverpo...

Lord Russell of Liverpool | 808 c939 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for her very full reply. I asked whether the approach of my noble friend Lor...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 808 c940 (Link to this contribution)

I will reiterate what I said, which is that I am trying to work out a mechanism for sessions that...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 808 c940 (Link to this contribution)

Actually, I have nothing to ask. The noble Baroness answered my point right at the end, after I h...

Lord Young of Cookham | 808 cc940-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am very grateful to everyone who has taken part in this debate—not least the Minister...

Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay | 808 c942 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we must finish at 8.45 pm but the next group has only five speakers, so if noble Lords ...

Baroness Henig | 808 c942 (Link to this contribution)

We come now to Amendment 49. I remind noble Lords that anyone wishing to speak after the Minister...

Lord Paddick | 808 c942 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Paddick

49: Clause 1, page 3, line 2, at end insert—

“( ) A crimi...

Lord Paddick | 808 c942 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this amendment is in my name and that of my noble friend Lady Hamwee. As we have debate...

Baroness Chakrabarti | 808 cc942-3 (Link to this contribution)

I will speak briefly in full-blooded support of the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, and an amendment th...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 808 c943 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will be brief. I see the point that the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, is making on the ne...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 808 cc943-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I hope to provide the clarity that the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, seeks and persuade the...

Lord Paddick | 808 c944 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for what she just said and I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Chakrabarti, for...

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