My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Newby, for introducing this group of amendments. It might be helpful if I start by putting the issues that he and other noble Lords have raised in the context of the Bill as a whole.
The powers in this Bill are extensive. They are there to support the efforts being made across the country to combat the outbreak of this disease. The purpose of the powers is to support public bodies and wider society in responding to a serious emergency. However, we have sought, in parallel, to provide an essential mechanism for controlling the use of those powers. A balance has had to be struck between protecting the public’s health and safeguarding individuals’ rights, and acting swiftly in response to fast-moving events while ensuring accountability and transparency.
A two-year lifespan for this Act has been chosen to ensure that its powers remain available for a reasonable length of time, with the option to extend the provisions in it by the relevant national authority. I underline to the noble Lord, Lord Newby, in particular that the Bill cannot be renewed after two years without a statutory instrument laid in both Houses, which must be agreed to by both. A reasonable worst-case scenario for this outbreak is that it could last for more than a year. We therefore judged that some of the provisions in the Bill may need to be in place for up to two years. We cannot guarantee that a period of less than 24 months will be enough; nor can we predict which powers will be required or for how long. That is why we may also need to extend some of the provisions beyond two years.
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We must bear in mind that very large parts of this Bill are designed to support people in this time of greatest need. Without being able to predict exactly what those needs might be, or for how long people might require such support, we have to provide at the very least a good degree of certainty that we stand with them. The sunsetting and expiry provisions of the Bill therefore provide that reassurance and at the same time enable us to ensure that these changes are in place only for as long as they need to be.
The measures proposed aim to protect the public and enable life to continue as normally as possible during any significant disease outbreak, but we want the right amount of checks and balances to operate. We brought forward a government amendment to the Bill in the Commons, Clause 98, that will enable the House of Commons to take a view every six months on whether the provisions of the Act need to continue in force. Ministers will report to Parliament every two months on how we have used the powers in confronting this awful epidemic. There will be a meaningful debate in both Houses after 12 months and an affirmative instrument will need to be made for any renewal after 24 months—as I mentioned earlier. Therefore, we are ensuring that the support that people need will be there, but we are also clear that there will be regular reports and debates in Parliament to ensure proportionate accountability—proportionate in the sense that the accountability mechanisms do not make the management of this outbreak harder.
On the specifics of the amendments, I recognise that they are very thoughtful and well considered and provide the opportunity for the Committee to consider why the Bill as currently drafted is the right way forward. I understand the concerns behind Amendments 7, 8, 9 and 12, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Newby,
and the noble Baroness, Lady Barker. As they will know, these concerns were debated at considerable length in the other place on Monday; they were debated by policymakers and political leaders across the four nations of this kingdom. The conclusion that we and they have come to is that this is no ordinary emergency; it is an unprecedented threat on a global scale, and our response has to meet the scale of the challenge.
However, as the challenge is so great, there are many unknowns. For example, the epidemic might come in one or more waves, which might or might not have a seasonal factor and might or might not be controlled by a vaccine. These things are as yet unknown, and the Government’s clear view is that three months is simply not long enough to have measures in force and to be able to evaluate their impact.
Of course, we do not want to see people’s lives disrupted for months at a time, so, if we can, we will suspend provisions so that we can alleviate some of the burden on the citizen. Equally, however, people want to know that the payments, reliefs and easements that they have come to rely on will not be switched off too soon. A two-year lifespan with the option to renew for six months gives people such certainty and gives us enough time to make serious progress on halting this epidemic. The requirements to report to Parliament for a one-year anniversary debate and for a six-monthly review all add up to a significant safeguard. Adding in the powers to suspend or revive burdensome but necessary provisions builds in an additional layer of protection.
I can also give the Committee an assurance that the Government will publish an accurate and up-to-date account on our website of which provisions we have in force and what plans we might have to review and/or change that status. The noble Lord, Lord Newby, proposed that the website report should be comprehensive. I believe I can give him that reassurance. There will be a comprehensive report on the workings of the Bill, both legislative and practical, and of all other actions that the Government have seen fit to take. This will be presented to Parliament every two months—I emphasise that we are committed to transparency. The grid he mentioned about the powers in the Bill being switched on and off will be published on the website. The least that the Government can do in these extraordinary circumstances is to make sure that the public and Parliament are fully informed of what is and is not happening.
Similarly, while I have a great deal of sympathy with the intention behind Amendment 11, tabled by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer, I believe equally that the level of accountability, scrutiny and parliamentary control over the Government’s use of delegated powers in the Bill is much greater than normal. It needs to be—these are far-reaching powers. It is right that the House of Commons should review this legislation and bring to bear on that debate the experience of their constituents. Of course, this House has every right to call for such debates too, but as it has noted many times in the past, that role does not need to be legislated for: the House can order its own business as it chooses. I therefore do not believe the noble and learned Lord’s amendment is necessary.
The noble and learned Lord asked me to consider the possibility that Parliament should be able to turn off some powers and not others. What I say to that is that we owe it to those to whom we are accountable to use these powers to their full effect if we need to do so. I appreciate that giving Members of Parliament the opportunity to tweak the legislation, rather than make a binary choice, seems attractive and rational. The counterargument is that the package is an agreed, integrated whole that commands cross-party support in all four parts of the UK, and that consideration is one that I believe trumps that of the noble and learned Lord. We must strive to retain that unity of action and of purpose while at the same time acknowledging Parliament’s role in making that judgment.
The Government have no intention of using these powers without accounting to Parliament, and nor can we do so. The requirement to seek Parliament’s approval is not bound by procedure: we are always going to have to account for our actions. If Parliament is sitting we will use the draft affirmative procedure to seek any extension to these powers beyond two years and we will, of course, always respect any vote or view expressed in the House of Commons.
The noble Viscount, Lord Hanworth, and my noble friend Lord Tyrie made powerful points about the Mental Health Act. As a former Health Minister, I completely understand those points. These are exceptional powers and I re-emphasise that none of them will be introduced unless the advice comes from health experts and the scientists that they are necessary to invoke. If they are invoked, in relation to the Mental Health Act, I can assure both noble Lords that the appeals process will still apply, that we will use this temporary derogation only for as long as we have to and that we will account for its use.
I just want to reassure my noble friend Lord Tyrie that his other points have been well noted.
I therefore believe that, as drafted in the Bill, the scheme meets the balance of objectives that I outlined. Amendment 10, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, and the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, seeks to make a broadly similar point to the previous amendment: that the Government should explain themselves fully in how these powers have been, are being and will be used. Of course, that is exactly the purpose of the clause as drafted. I hope that the past few weeks have shown how willing Ministers across the UK have been in opening themselves up to scrutiny.
I took full note of the proposals made by the noble Lords, Lord Newby and Lord Anderson. At first blush, they do not seem at all unreasonable but I reserve the right to take advice on how far we can go. I do not think that the amendment will add to the wish, or indeed the obligation, on the part of the Secretary of State to explain why he has drawn the conclusions he has. However, for the record, I reiterate that the Government will provide evidence and explanation in justifying the conclusions set out in these two-monthly reports.
I hope that these remarks are helpful. None of us wants to see the wrong balance struck between the powers conferred on government and Ministers’ accountability
to Parliament. However, we believe that the balance struck in the Bill is the right one, with the safeguards that we need to bring it about. I therefore urge noble Lords not to press the amendments.