My Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Lady, Baroness Jones of Whitchurch, for Amendment 113, and to the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, for Amendments 114 and 116, which were spoken to by the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell. I will address these amendments together, so that I hope I can provide—I underline “I hope” following the comments from the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell—the necessary reassurance that the measures proposed can already be supported by the financial assistance regimes made under Clause 33 of the Bill.
The Bill sets out the various purposes for which funding can be given, rather than setting out specific activities. This provides flexibility to fund a wide range of activities, including scientific data collection and innovation in gear selectivity, even if they are not directly mentioned. The existing powers found in the Fisheries Act 1981 are limited to providing assistance for the purpose of reorganising, developing or promoting the sea fish industry or fish farming. The revised power will widen this to allow financial assistance for: the protection and improvement of the marine and aquatic environment; the promotion, development or reorganisation of commercial fish activities; health and safety; training; economic development or social improvement in areas where commercial fish or aquaculture activities are carried out; improving the arrangements for catch or effort quotas; and the promotion of recreational fishing. This means that when scientific
data collection contributes to the purposes described, such as conservation or improving the arrangements for quota allocations, it would be eligible for financial assistance through this power.
At this juncture, I should say to my noble friend Lady McIntosh and the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, that UK scientists are deemed to have considerable expertise and make a significant contribution to international co-operation on stock assessment and related fisheries science. That will continue, primarily through ICES—the International Council for the Exploration of the Sea—which is the independent global body for these purposes. Defra has always worked very closely with ICES, and this will continue. In addition, UK scientists will continue to co-operate regionally with counterparts in the EU and other countries on fisheries and the marine environment.
We will also work with ICES and scientists in the UK, both in Cefas and across the devolved Administrations, to understand the impact of climate change on fish stocks. I am very pleased that, when we discussed the objectives of the Bill earlier, the Government inserted the climate change objective, which is an indication of how serious this matter is for both the marine and terrestrial environments.
I am advised that there are some practical challenges with the drafting of Amendment 113. It is long established that government funding should not be provided for matters that are mandatory. There are already requirements for fishers to carry out a number of the activities listed in the amendment, and these therefore should not benefit from public money. For example, vessels over 12 metres in length are required to use vessel monitoring systems. Similarly, fishers must record details of their catches. Neither of these, in our view, should attract financial assistance, as they are mandatory requirements.
I appreciate the intention in Amendments 114 and 116, which the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, spoke to. However, I am advised that the powers contained in Clause 33 are already sufficient to create and deliver such a fund, if desired, while not limiting the range of other potential activities that could also be funded. This is the key point that I want to develop. Should other sustainability priorities be identified beyond gear selectivity, we may not be able to create a specific fund to address those priorities if we were tied to a fund focusing on gear selectivity.
Before introducing any new grant scheme, we will consult the sector on the priorities for funding. Details for the activities to be funded in England will also be set out in the regulations we will create to deliver our own domestic scheme. These will be subject to full parliamentary scrutiny, as the regulations will be introduced by affirmative resolution.
Turning to Amendment 115, I share the noble Lord’s concern about sustainable stock levels being achieved. I say to the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell—and I am sure we will have this on Report—regarding the objectives in Clause 1, yes, we need to ensure we are mindful of fishers’ livelihoods, but this is all predicated on the sustainability of our ecosystem. From any lay reading—perhaps I am deploying points I will make
on Report—the overwhelming majority of those objectives are predicated on a firm and strong belief that the environmental sustainability of the ecosystem is the route by which you get vibrant communities and vibrant fish stocks. From the Government’s point of view, there is no dilemma about this; it is exactly what we are aiming to do. But, as a responsible Government, we have to be mindful of caring for those coastal communities.
I should also say that it is not government policy to compensate industry when setting the annual fishing effort where that results in a reduction of potential profit or for in-year management measures needed to comply with regulations and ensure the long-term sustainability of the sector. Such activities must and do take place each year, so the fluctuations in profit should be borne by the industry itself. It is already able to respond to fluctuating stock levels to a certain extent by fishing in different fishing grounds to catch quota or adapting the gear to fish for different stocks.
We believe that providing compensation would risk reducing the incentive on the industry to take ownership of fishing at sustainable levels. An unintended consequence of this amendment could be that the industry decided to focus its fishing over a few months in the year, until the stock is exhausted, in the knowledge that it would then have to tie up but be financially compensated for doing so. I think all of us would agree that this would not be a helpful precedent and runs entirely contrary to the spirit and the words expressed in this House; it cannot be right that industry should be in some way rewarded for overfishing. These are points that I know were not intended, but we are concerned about the unintended consequence in terms of the legal reading of the amendment. It is only reasonable that I should make these points to your Lordships.
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A future funding scheme could instead provide support to our fishers to allow them to change to more sustainable practices. This could include funding for gear with a reduced environmental impact, as the noble Lord’s gear selectivity fund would have, or funding that enables fishers to change the species they target in line with scientific advice. This will help them to adapt and remain economically viable, without needing compensation or risking fish stocks.
On Amendment 120, I reassure noble Lords that the power under Clause 36 is wide enough to amend retained EU law relating to the data collection framework if we need to implement an international obligation, or if we want to adapt those regulations to suit better the UK for a conservation purpose or a fish industry purpose. Clause 36(4)(o) allows provision to be made in relation to the keeping, disclosing or publishing of accounts, records and other documents and information. Clause 36(4)(q) allows provision to be made in relation to the monitoring and enforcement of compliance with the matters listed in Clause 36. Finally, Clause 36(4)(l) also allows provision to be made in relation to the use the Secretary of State may make of information gathered in the exercise of his functions.
My noble friend Lady McIntosh raised the issue of climate change and research. The Marine Climate Change Impacts Partnership published a report on the
impacts of climate change on fish in January 2020. The group is a partnership between marine scientists from the UK and DAs, their agencies, NGOs and industry. When I send a letter—as I suspect I will at some point—I will get the reference to that report, because I think that noble Lords might indeed like to hear more about that work.
I should also say to my noble friend that the decisions on the replacement domestic arrangements for fisheries data collection will be taken during the next spending review, alongside decisions on all other domestic spending priorities. My understanding is that it has been referenced as before the Summer Recess. I do not think I am in a position to give more precise details, but that is the manner in which it will come.
I hope that noble Lords feel that I am seeking to be positive. I am seeking to assure noble Lords that, on all the points made in this short debate about the need for scientific research and for more research into gear selectivity, the drafting of this Bill is to open up all that and beyond. I am advised that, by seeking perhaps to highlight particular aspects, the amendment may in some way prevent the interpretation and wider recognition that we of course need to have the best scientific advice available. It is why I think, for instance, that this report on the impacts of climate change on fish from January 2020 is very timely. There are so many areas where we are on a learning curve and where we will need to collaborate with the scientists, both in this country and through ICES, the EU and other organisations.
I assure noble Lords that saying what I have said is not in any way to diminish anything that has been said on the issue of the importance of scientific endeavour, but I wanted to put on the record what we think the Bill enables. On that basis, I hope the noble Baroness will feel able to withdraw her amendment.