My Lords, I thank the Minister for his introduction to this SI and for organising a helpful briefing beforehand. I also thank all noble Lords who have contributed to this discussion.
At the outset I will say something about the overall content of this SI. I find it amazing that an SI dealing primarily with amendments to the common fisheries legislation also has buried away in it amendments to the transport of animals regulations. This is particularly irritating as we dealt this afternoon with a separate SI on animal welfare; it would have made much more sense to have included these amendments in that.
It is even more concerning since the Minister of State, George Eustice, stated in the other place that the Government had no intention of consolidating these SIs into a meaningful piece of legislation, which would have made more sense for those working in the sector and abiding by the rules. So do the Minister’s civil servants consult before issuing what seem to be random pieces of legislation that do not bear any connection? Does he agree that this is not the best way to go about making legislation that could be on the statute book for some time before being superseded by new primary legislation? While we are on the subject of primary legislation, can the Minister shed some light on when the fisheries Bill is likely to see the light of day? It might address some of the issues raised this afternoon.
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Returning to the specifics of this SI, it appears to make a number of detailed changes to fishing regulations, which I want to understand a little better. First, paragraph 7.2 of the Explanatory Memorandum says that the definition a “fisheries administration”, which is the new phrase that we are adopting, means,
“the Secretary of State, a devolved fisheries administration or the Marine Management Organisation”.
However, paragraph 7.6 goes on to state:
“The MMO is also listed as ‘a fisheries administration’ in the retained EU law of which the relevant regulations form part, but the MMO does not have any legislative functions”.
Given that this legislation hands considerable powers to the fishing administration, can the Minister clarify whether this will hand new powers to the MMO that it did not exercise before? What is the meaning of what appear to be slight contradictions in the phraseology of those two paragraphs?
Secondly, turning to the text of the legislation itself, proposed new paragraph (2) in Regulation 5(12) refers to the Secretary of State being able to amend the fishing areas set out in Annex 2, taking into account the impact of displacement fishing activity on “other sensitive areas”. Is there a definition of what is meant by “other sensitive areas”? Is this a phrase used by the EU, because it would seem to have quite a wide range of interpretations?
Similarly, on the subject of definitions, proposed new paragraph (1) in Regulation 5(20) refers to assessing the impact of “innovative fishing gear”. How will that be defined, given that one would think that modifications and improvements to the gear happen on a regular basis? I raise the issue because, in part, it goes to the heart of what the noble Baroness, Lady Neville-Rolfe, said, which concerned enforcement. As long as there is phraseology like that, which can be interpreted by fishers or businesses in different ways, it makes enforcement very difficult. We do not want to allow people to swim through the net and escape the regulations that would otherwise apply to them, so some clarification on that point would be helpful.
Thirdly, the Minister will have seen reference in the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee report to concerns raised by the Green Alliance; the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, also raised this issue. One of its concerns, which the noble Lord very helpfully repeated, was that the existing EU provisions enable joint recommendations by member states to change or repeal technical measures on fishing conservation. This SI subsumes the joint recommendations into the powers of the fisheries administrations, which can act alone—and, as we know, that will often be the Secretary of State acting alone.
When this issue was raised, Defra’s response was that joint recommendations,
“would not work as a concept in the new regime”.
However, this issue goes to the heart of many of our concerns about EU withdrawal: namely, that we seem to have lost the advantages of collaboration and shared decision-making, which in the past ensured that we came out with more balanced, well-founded outcomes. Instead, we have one body that is not really accountable —as noble Lords said, it will effectively mark its own homework—and which can be subject to all kinds of political and short-term economic pressures, which might result in cutting corners on conservation. Picking up on the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, will the Minister explain how the Government intend to put back those layers of scrutiny and accountability in the forthcoming Environment Bill and the fisheries Bill?
Fourthly, the SI sets out new arrangements for the western waters multilateral plan and the North Sea multilateral plan. Will the Minister clarify the wording
in the SI? Does it refer to the outcome of those multilateral agreements? Does it mirror what is being introduced by all the other nations that are party to the agreements, or have we put our own interpretation on the existing agreements?
Finally, it is clearly important that the devolved Administrations work together on fisheries, as fish do not respect national borders. This issue was raised by the noble Duke, the Duke of Montrose. In future, how will the devolved Administrations work together? Can the Minister clarify what arrangements are in place for ongoing dialogue between the devolved Administrations’ fishing administrations? What arrangements are being put in place to resolve any conflicts that may occur, given that we will be on our own in trying to resolve them and will not have a higher authority to appeal to when disagreements occur?
Will the Minister also explain the implications of Boris Johnson’s withdrawal Bill for Northern Ireland fishers? Is it the case that the Northern Ireland protocol includes the territorial land but not the territorial waters, so the customs territory of the land is in Northern Ireland but the sea and the fish in the sea are retained by the UK? If you are a Northern Ireland fisher fishing in the coastal waters around Northern Ireland, will your fish be designated as UK and not Northern Irish for customs purposes? What would happen if a Northern Ireland trawler landed its catch in Scotland for processing and the processed fish was destined for the EU? What would happen if a trawler landed its catch in the Republic and the fish was passed back to the UK market? Those are examples of what could be very complicated arrangements for Northern Ireland fishers. They clearly have big political implications, but they go to the heart of those individuals’ livelihoods.
Michel Barnier has said that a free-trade agreement could take around three years to negotiate. The Northern Ireland protocol would therefore be in effect until that agreement came into force—or, if there is no deal at the end of the transition period, it would remain in place until 2024 at the earliest. So I would be grateful if the Minister could clarify the status of the catch of Northern Ireland fishers in the different circumstances that may arise over the next four years. I know that this is a specific question, but it is important and goes to the heart of the EU withdrawal arrangements that we are discussing. I look forward to the Minister’s response.