I was referring to the comments made by the noble Baroness, Lady Boycott. She said she was upset about some of the comments that had been made in the debate, and I respect the comments she made in that regard. I think she was right to make them.
Coming back to the point about whether this is procedurally correct, as somebody who has spent more hours than I might care to discussing this with clerks or colleagues, I can say that if the matters before us were not procedurally correct, they would not be debated by this Committee today. All matters before us are procedurally correct. The noble Lord from the DUP made the point that the provisions on abortion and same-sex marriage were not supported by Members of Parliament from Northern Ireland. I regard every single Member of Parliament as equal to every other. Each Member has a duty to consider the position of the United Kingdom as a whole. We have a Conservative Government, supported by Members of Parliament from Northern Ireland of a different political party, who presumably vote on issues affecting the whole of the UK. I would not criticise Members of Parliament who vote on issues that affect other parts of the United Kingdom, because all MPs are equal.
7.15 pm
The noble Baroness, Lady O’Loan, said that Northern Ireland is not allowed to govern itself. I look at the Minister and I think he would love to see a devolved Government up and running in Northern Ireland. That has been said across the Committee. Everybody wants these decisions to be taken by a devolved Government. It is not a case of not being allowed to do this; the decision lies with the Northern Ireland political parties. I think all noble Lords want to see much greater progress on this. For about two and a half years, we have had no Government, no local Assembly meeting and no Ministers in Northern Ireland. You have to ask: who speaks for the people of Northern Ireland? A case I have been particularly interested in is the hyponatraemia inquiry, which I set up getting on for 20 years ago. This has now reported and the families of the children who died are desperate to take forward the proposals and recommendations in that report. Because of the lack of a Government in Northern Ireland, those families continue to suffer, as no decisions are being taken on those recommendations.
We are seeing amendments to this Bill not just on abortion and same-sex marriage but on pensions and compensation for victims of historical sexual abuse—the latter is my amendment, which I regret is the final one we will debate today. Those are coming forward to this House and this Parliament because of the lack of a devolved Assembly in Northern Ireland. I do not accept that any decisions taken in this House make devolution more difficult. You could argue that it is the impetus of decisions that could be taken here that should put pressure on Northern Ireland politicians to ensure that devolution is up and running.
When we next debate this we will discuss the amendments from the Commons. I understand that the Government are in discussions with Stella Creasy and Conor McGinn about how to give effect to the will of the House of Commons. That is right. The votes in the Commons had bigger majorities than we get in your Lordships’ House. The McGinn amendment was passed by 383 to 73 and the Creasy amendment by 332 to 99. I welcome that the Government are having discussions about how to give technical effect to those amendments and the will of Parliament.
We have seen amendments on consultation today and I have to take it at face value that those who tabled amendments about consultation genuinely want it. However, no MP proposed that there should be consultation on any of these issues until after the votes on same-sex marriage and abortion had taken place. I think these amendments are designed to frustrate, delay, restrict and undermine the amendments from the House of Commons. I think the noble Lord, Lord McCrea, actually said that that was the intention behind his comments today.
What we are debating goes beyond personal views or opinions. We have heard already how the Assembly voted for same-sex marriage in 2015. My understanding is that had that Assembly still been sitting, we would not even be debating that issue here today. It is something of an irony that the reason that that was halted and did not take place was because of a petition of concern. This is designed to protect minority views in Northern Ireland and here it actually frustrated legislation for a minority in Northern Ireland. A majority of the current Assembly Members would also vote for this. It is a basic human dignity to be allowed to marry the person you love in your home country.
On abortion, there are strong opinions on either side which must be respected, but I struggle with the notion that in Northern Ireland a victim of a violent rape who has an abortion faces a harsher penalty than her attacker. I find that quite chilling. The position at the moment does not stop abortions happening. If it was possible to reduce the number of abortions, I would be pleased to support that, financially and otherwise, but that is not what the amendments would do. More than 1,000 women and girls now travel to England and Wales for abortion, in addition to those who take illegal abortion pills bought online.