I understand the point from the noble Lord. However, as I said in my opening remarks, it is the case that Cefic and other bodies are working extremely constructively, as there is a mutual benefit.
As a prelude to today, I read last Thursday’s Hansard—my noble friend Lady Buscombe was very helpful in taking me through that interesting debate. To be pedantic, let me be clear that the 488 approvals mentioned are part of a programme under the biocidal products regulation and not REACH. All of government is looking in great detail at what needs to be done and what resources are necessary to make sure it happens.
The noble Lord, Lord Krebs, and my noble friend Lady McIntosh asked about the benefits of a UK system. I have said already—and will say again, because the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, raised it—that our preference is obviously to maintain participation in the European Chemicals Agency. That is the Government’s aim, and I will go into further detail on it. However, we are here because we have to consider all eventualities. In his report, the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, made it very clear that although sometimes we do not wish to be in a certain place, we have to do the responsible thing. Indeed, his committee considered how we deal with all scenarios.
The noble Lord, Lord Teverson, also asked how many UK companies have taken advantage of the Brexit window. I do not have any details from the ECHA on that, but if I receive any further information, I will make sure it is passed to the noble Lord.
The noble Lord, Lord Fox, mentioned the duplication of costs. It is the case that, unfortunately, if there is no deal and we have to set up a UK REACH system, or if at the end of the negotiations participation is not possible, we would, as other countries do, have to have a regulatory system. However, I emphasise that, through our transitional measures, we are seeking to minimise the costs; for companies registering new chemicals, the requirements will be the same.
I understand the concerns of business and civil society. That is why we have had such a considerable number of discussions, as I referred to in my opening remarks, with business, all representatives who have an interest and Ministers in BEIS.
I was struck by last Thursday’s intervention from the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie of Luton. He described the Health and Safety Executive as,
“one of the jewels in the crown of our regulatory firmament”,—[Official Report, 21/3/19; col. 1602.]
and said he had no doubt about its intellectual capability. I agree with the noble Lord and with the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Whitty: no other organisation is better placed than the HSE to act as the UK agency.
As I said, we intend to scale-up resources to £13 million at full operation. I say to my noble friend Lady McIntosh that this funding is primarily for human resourcing in Defra, the HSE and the Environment Agency, to make sure that: we have the necessary levels of technical specialist input into risk and socioeconomic assessments of chemicals for the UK; first-rate policy advice can be provided; we can increase engagement with UK businesses and appropriate international fora; and we can take forward legislation as we seek to become a global leader in promoting the sound management of chemicals. As the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, rightly identified, the HSE will at this stage take on about 35 to 40 people. We will have a strong and effective regulator by building on the expertise of the HSE and the Environment Agency to operate REACH in the UK. As for the estimated number of staff, we think we will need 135 full-time equivalents across the three organisations of Defra, the EA and the HSE for the work I have outlined.
The noble Lord, Lord Whitty, raised the matter of independence. As the UK agency, the HSE must also draw on independent expert scientific advice when developing its opinions on restrictions and authorisations. This will add to the robust evidence and analysis underpinning its opinions. If there are reasons the HSE does not commission independent advice—for example, where ECHA has already published a robust opinion on a chemical—it must publish its justification.
The noble Lords, Lord Fox, Lord Teverson and Lord Whitty, raised the potential costs to industry. The instrument puts in place transitional arrangements to provide business continuity. We are bringing all UK registrations automatically into UK REACH, so there is no break in market access. We are making sure that companies can continue to buy chemicals from the EU from day one. Grandfathering means that there will be no break in industry’s duty to identify and apply the appropriate risk management measures in businesses. We will not weaken the “no data, no market” principle
because that is fundamental to REACH. But we have engaged closely with industry stakeholders about costs and how to mitigate them. As I said, the UK Chemical Industries Association and Cefic have published their joint recommendation that data used to register under REACH should be available for UK REACH at no extra charge.
On grandfathering, we acknowledge the existing ECHA registrations. That is why we have the grandfathering system and will accept reduced information for the first two years. But that is not a tenable position in the long term if we want to have an effective regulatory system that protects human health and the environment.
A number of noble Lords, particularly the noble Lord, Lord Trees, mentioned animal testing. This instrument preserves the built-in mechanisms to reduce the amount of animal testing. This is the last-resort principle that means that companies and the regulator can turn to animal tests only if they have exhausted all other ways of getting the information they need to complete the understanding of the chemical. There is also the testing proposal mechanism, which means that in many cases industry cannot proceed with animal testing unless it gets the regulator’s agreement first. The UK’s regulations preserve these provisions. Without this instrument, we would not have those powers to stop animal testing.
The UK’s record on these matters is acknowledged internationally, which was mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Whitty. The UK has been the forefront in ECHA in opposing animal tests where alternative approaches are available. I should say to the noble Lord, Lord Trees, that we will aim to harmonise as much as possible. We will accept existing animal tests produced for EU REACH. We will not ask for new ones. Looking forward, we will work on the basis of mutual acceptance of data and the EU follows the same principle.
The noble Lord, Lord Fox, raised the important issue of environmental protections. The Government have repeatedly made clear their commitment to environmental standards. The policy paper that we published alongside the environment Bill in December last year reinforces the regulatory provisions throughout REACH that are fully preserved in the instrument today.
I also say to the noble Lord, Lord Krebs, that we will continue to need robust scientific evidence to make sure that we are properly protecting human health and the environment. That is why we have put in place strong arrangements for scientific advice. The HSE must seek external knowledge and advice when forming its opinions or otherwise justify why it has decided not to. It must act in a way that ensures a high level of transparency and it must publish its opinions. The HSE will have access to the best advice and will not be limited to the UK or even the EU. Indeed, we think by contrast that a UK statutory committee runs the risk of rather narrower membership and limiting our access to expertise. We are also committed to transparent processes. We will have arrangements in place in UK REACH to allow stakeholders to observe discussions and considerations where independent scientific advice is provided and to read publicly available minutes of these meetings.
The noble Lords, Lord Krebs and Lord Fox, raised divergence. It is the case that industry and NGOs have expressed views on that matter. First, the UK will not diverge from EU regulatory standards, at least not if that means reducing our standards. In other words, that we will retain the highest possible standards is the whole basis of this regulation. We will look very closely at what the EU does, but it is right that our regulators should apply their own judgment based on independent, expert advice on individual chemicals.
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My noble friend Lady McIntosh asked about IP and continued co-operation with the EU. Again, we have recognised the importance of continued co-operation. We will work through the negotiations to achieve that.
In speaking to his amendment, the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, raised the issue of the Government making continued United Kingdom participation in the European Chemicals Agency and REACH an objective in negotiations with the European Union. The Government’s objective is exactly that. Having read the sub-committee report of the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, that principle was welcomed by the committee. But we cannot unilaterally provide for that in UK legislation. The purpose of this SI is to make the legislative arrangements for a stand-alone UK chemicals regime in the event of our leaving without a withdrawal deal, although as I emphasised to my noble friend Lady McIntosh, the Government’s aims for chemicals in a negotiated future relationship with the EU were set out in the White Paper. The White Paper looks forward, as has been said, to participation by the UK in agencies such as the European Chemicals Agency, a common rulebook for sectors such as chemicals and continued participation.
This is an important debate, but my noble friend the Chief Whip has told me that I am taking too much time. May I take a number of points because they are important?
I naturally regret the observations of the noble Lord, Lord Teverson—and the noble Viscount, Lord Hanworth—about Defra and its response. However, I know that my honourable friend the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Environment is in regular correspondence with the noble Lord. Work began on this in 2016, so I can assure noble Lords that a huge amount of work has gone into this.
I would also say to the noble Viscount, Lord Hanworth, and the noble Lords, Lord Krebs and Lord Teverson, and my noble friend Lord Selkirk, that I learnt about the professors on the noble Lords’ committee. I found that report a great assistance in assessing the issues.
I can assure noble Lords that the importance of the chemical industry is fully understood. Alongside this, we all want to have a regime in place that gives us confidence about the responsible use of chemicals. As far as I have been informed, industry has been clear, whatever reservations it has about certain elements, that it needs this instrument on the statute book.
I will assess the quite considerable number of other questions that I have not been quick enough to handle, but I respectfully say to the three noble Lords, all of
whom I know have a deep understanding of this issue, that it would be much appreciated if they felt able not to press their amendments and to support the instrument.