My Lords, my first concern is the same as that of the noble Baroness and the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee: namely, that the regulations cover disparate things. I come to these matters at the first instance and know that some of them have been dealt with previously but that there are still some to come.
The Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee pointed out that having SIs on different areas was not helpful to consideration by the House, but, much more importantly, it is not helpful for those who have to use them in the longer term. In other words, as the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, has said, if all the GI SIs were in one place—even if not in one instrument then at least in related instruments—those who had to operate the system thereafter would be in a much easier place. Likewise with the veterinary measures, the veterinary profession, farmers and pet owners would know where to find the sequence of regulation which applies to veterinary practice and medicines post Brexit.
I appreciate that Defra has had an incredible throughput of SIs to bring to Parliament and congratulate the staff in Defra on doing so and on reducing them in number—I think that we were originally expecting about 900; by merging them in this way, they have brought their number down—but there were better ways, certainly in these fields, of merging them. I think that there will be some confusion down the line when we come to address them again.
I have a few questions, some of which have already been posed. There is no impact assessment for any part of this SI. In the broad sweep of the costs of Brexit, these figures may be rather low, but for the individual operator they are not necessarily so. A specialist food company which has a protected designation in international terms will have to come out of that, probably lose a chunk of its market as a result and then go through a process of registering with the UK system. There will not be a fee if it has previously been registered in Europe, but it will have to engage in changing its packaging and marketing and possibly change its logo twice. There is a significant cost to the individual producer.
My other point is a general point that relates to SIs that I have seen in other areas as well: it is not clear in these SIs—although I was grateful to the Minister for some clarification in the discussion that we had the other day—quite how the powers of the European Commission or the other European agencies transfer to UK agencies. In some cases, it will be obvious and straightforward—the limited amount of veterinary medicines that are cleared in Europe at the moment will come to the VMD. It is an existing organisation and we know how that works. However, GIs will be dealt with by the department. There is not a specialist operation. There is then the appeals process. The Explanatory Memorandum refers to a single-tier process with the department and the Secretary of State, and that is subject to a different appeals process. I understand that but it is not clear from the text of the SI. The drafters of these SIs need to make it clear to the practitioners who is responsible for what used to be an EU institution’s role.
On the geographical indications schemes, the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, referred to the 87 UK products that we already have and she also asked how many were in the pipeline. Civil servants gave me an answer the other day but I recently looked at a list on the website showing that 14 are in the pipeline. That is rather more than I was given to understand was the number. It is important that those products do not have a duplicate process and that they are prioritised under the new system. The case will already have been prepared. They may not have got very far with it in Europe but the case will have been prepared.
The key issue in this circumstance is: what do the Government expect a UK designation to provide in terms of export markets? Because the rather discerning British consumer understands the EU designation, EU products have a benefit within the UK market because they will continue to have an EU designation. A reciprocal arrangement does not apply. We will have to invent, and invest in, marketing our specialist, previously protected products in Europe, as well as the new ones that are coming along the line, and the department may well have to look at promotional activity for these specialist products.
That takes me to the logo, which will be all important in establishing this new quality, both internally and externally. The interim arrangement seems to have been a bit of a problem. I am not entirely sure why it takes three years to develop a logo. Plenty of firms start up in various sectors and get a logo out in a matter of weeks. Therefore, I do not quite see why we
need three years to do so. In any case, there will be a double cost to the producer—having to put the interim logo on first and then, in three years’ time, move to an approved UK logo. There needs to be some attempt at costing that.
Because agriculture and, to a large extent, food production are devolved, there is the possibility of having different logos and systems in each of the devolved Assemblies, even though there may be an overall UK recognition system. A lot of the produce is very local, and a disproportionate number of those products—the existing ones and the ones in the pipeline—come from the territory of the devolved Administrations. There might be some difficulty in reconciling the system with the devolved Administrations. It is possible that the Scottish Administration, and perhaps the Northern Ireland Administration, will want a somewhat different logo from the one envisaged as the UK logo under these changes.
On veterinary medicines, I accept that the profession has been fully consulted. It has told me, as it has told others, that it is pretty satisfied with the need for the regulations when we move. The issue again is: what is the reciprocity? If veterinary medicines which were previously recognised in Europe are now recognised by us, is Europe likely to recognise those which are approved only or primarily in the UK, or is that a matter for a long-term treaty or possibly an international arrangement?
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MRLs are ultimately there to protect the human and, in some cases, animal consumer. They are there for a health reason. It is therefore very important that we do not go backwards. The withdrawal period specified in EU legislation—the period since the animal last received those medicines—is important to preserve but does not exist in the same way in other jurisdictions around the world. If we are entering new trade agreements with, say, America or Brazil, they will be operating on different systems. We must be careful that we preserve the protection of the British consumer and that the withdrawal period stipulations which have been in EU law will now be in UK law.
I should like to check on one potential protection from digression from standards in this field. The Americans portray hormone injections as medicine but they are really there for growth. Are they regarded internationally as inappropriate or are they subject to the same withdrawal period provisions? At the moment, we in Europe—theoretically at least—do not allow them at all. Do international standards apply here? I know that both the EU and various other regimes have regard to the international codex on this, which provides some protection. It is important that we do not allow any digression from the protection given by the MRL legislation.
I have no detailed points on the provisions for wine, spirits or mineral water: I just wish they were all in the same place so I could understand them. By and large, the full range of what is in European law now sits in British law, once we pass the regulations. I just wish the regulations were more user-friendly and understandable to producers, vets, farmers, consumers and regulators.
Without driving the staff of Defra mad, I wonder whether at some point we could rationalise the way in which we protect these SIs once, one way or another, we have got through the rush of exit, exit day is over and we are in either a deal or a no-deal situation. If we have a transition period, we might be able to sort it out a little more clearly and in a more user-friendly manner. Apart from that, I fully support the regulations.