The noble Lord makes an interesting point. Unfortunately, I will not comment on it at this particular moment. The reason the noble Lord, Lord Empey, and I seemed to be scrambling to get in here at the beginning of this debate was because we were sitting next door trying to work out how we could find a way through some of the challenges encountered this evening. I am blessed that he managed to find his way to his place and that I did too.
5.30 pm
If I may take the wider point into its widest possible connection, the heating incentive was, at its heart, a noble idea. Its purpose was to reduce the carbon footprint of Northern Ireland. That is an ambition of this Government and the outgoing Executive. At heart, it was a noble endeavour. But frankly, its construction was flawed top to bottom—flawed in almost every possible way—to the extent that we could almost describe its construction as a good old-fashioned scandal. Indeed, there is an inquiry into that scandal right now. It will report in due course, and it will examine all the basic elements of how on earth we got into a situation in which a scheme that was designed to reduce the carbon footprint of Northern Ireland could have created a situation in which the amount of money going to that scheme over a 20-year period would have been £1.3 billion to about 1,500 recipients. That amount of payment is absolutely extraordinary, and rests uncomfortably upon the errors conducted and permitted in Northern Ireland by various actors. The noble Lord, Lord McCrea, is right to point his finger and say that there is no single individual but rather a collection of individuals, who no doubt will have to explain why they found themselves where they did.
The important thing that constrains us today is that the European Union state aid rules are very clear. We are now in receipt of correspondence, shared with us by the Department for the Economy in Northern Ireland, which it has had with the Commission regarding the rate at which it should be set. The answer is 12%, not just for the scheme in Northern Ireland but for the scheme in Great Britain and elsewhere. That is the rate at which it was set.
However, we must remember that under the maladministration at the outset, the scheme in Northern Ireland was in excess of 50%, and therefore, quite quickly the costs spiralled to the point at which the amount spent on this would have all but crippled the economy of Northern Ireland had we not sought to constrain it in some way. Exacerbated by the absence
of an Executive—as the noble Lord, Lord Murphy, rightly reminds us—this matter, which should really be addressed in Stormont, rests here with us. I believe we have all been in receipt of emails and letters from individuals in Northern Ireland who, in good faith, acting upon written guidance, have found themselves in the most invidious of situations. How a Government could have allowed that to happen is a scandal. It will be investigated as such, and the findings will determine what has happened.
The noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay, always puts his finger on a very serious issue. He asked about those acting in good faith on written terms. But of course he will recall that when this matter was examined by the courts, the courts themselves examined the legitimate expectation of those in receipt, and looked at the public interest and the financial probity question. On that issue, they averred on the side of the public purse. This is still before the Court of Appeal, and no doubt other issues will unfold from this, but it is a reminder that the situation we find ourselves in is one in which we do need to be conscious of the wider finance.
The noble Lord, Lord McCrea, asked whether we could maintain the rate as it has been set. The answer to that, unfortunately, is no, because that rate is still in excess of the 12%, which is a limit set by the European Commission. That is what sets our legality. For those civil servants in Northern Ireland—and let us remind ourselves that there are no Ministers to take this forward—