My Lords, this has again been a very interesting and helpful debate. I understand that this is a subject that excites public concern and interest. The noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, was concerned about future Secretaries of State. This instrument is about a very distinct area of operability. Changes of the sort the noble Baroness was envisaging would come through a completely different route. The work we are doing today is very technical and is about issues that the European Parliament and Council have defined as being for the Commission to manage. These instruments are very tightly drawn. Therefore, any changes of the sort that the noble Baroness might be envisaging are not in them because they are not about changing policies in the areas that have come up in these regulations.
I turn to one issue immediately. I can safely say to your Lordships that I am extremely concerned about TSEs and extremely cautious. The noble Lord, Lord Trees, and the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, raised them. I want to make it absolutely clear that the TSE monitoring programme will not be watered down by the amendments; it will continue unchanged after we leave. Similarly, the Government have no plans to alter feeding stuffs regulations. These regulations exactly reflect the current EU programmes. Our existing monitoring programme for TSEs will remain at the current level, and we have no plans to change it. The Animal and Plant Health Agency is the national reference laboratory for TSEs and has the latest scientific evidence. I say that only to ensure that there is a recognition of the expertise that we have, as the noble Lord, Lord Trees, in particular, will know. Obviously one can never bind anyone else, but this is an area where, given what we have seen in a whole range of areas, we should always be extremely cautious.
As to whether there is any intention of loosening restrictions, the Government do not allow the feeding of fish meal to young ruminants and have no plans to alter that position. Again, any future changes would have to be based on a scientific assessment of the dietary needs of young ruminants and of the control aspects for permitting the young of ruminant species to be fed proteins derived from fish. However, as I said, this Government have no plans to alter the current situation.
I should have declared my farming interests and I apologise to your Lordships for not having done so.
Following the outbreaks of BSE and foot and mouth disease, which resulted from animal by-products entering the animal feed chain, in 2003 the EU implemented legislation to ensure the safe handling and disposal of animal by-products. The Government take very seriously the ever-present risk of the entry and spread of serious livestock disease. We all recall the pain and distress of those outbreaks. I can just remember the 1967 outbreak when I was at school. I was quite young, but I remember it very dramatically. There was also the foot and mouth outbreak in 2001. I want to be absolutely emphatic on this issue. Although
this instrument has nothing to do with these matters in terms of the policy, which is not being changed, we simply must not and will not relax our guard. High standards of biosecurity are essential.
My noble friend Lady McIntosh and the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell—I was going to say “my noble friend”—asked about rabbits and hares. Rabbit, and possibly hare, form a normal and much greater part of the diet in parts of the EU. There are currently no FSA-approved establishments for the slaughter of farmed rabbits or indeed hares—I have never even heard of hares being farmed. While the UK has a small rabbit farming industry, we are unaware of any commercial farms producing rabbits or hares for meat. Article 11 of directive 1099/2009 provides a derogation that currently allows farms to slaughter up to 10,000 rabbits, hares and poultry per annum outside an FSA-approved establishment, but there are currently no FSA-approved establishments here. This provision was brought back as part of that regime, but I am not sure it has a UK resonance. We have no plans to change any of the arrangements.
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My noble friend Lady McIntosh raised animal slaughter and the closure of slaughterhouses—an issue that I understand well. We are working closely with the FSA and with industry, because we clearly recognise the desirability of two things: of animals always meeting a respectful end, and for them not to have to travel any further than is necessary. But we must also be mindful that in this country we require high standards of hygiene, cleanliness and safety, which we expect across all slaughterhouses. This is all eminently possible with all sizes of slaughterhouses, but again this is an issue which we will return to as a nation in other times.
The noble Baronesses, Lady Bakewell and Lady Jones of Whitchurch, referred to evidence particularly on diseases and pests. Our government agencies and expert committees have recognised expertise in undertaking risk assessments and advising Governments. They have been doing so for many years and will continue to offer this expert advice in collaboration with industry and scientific centres. I am sure the veterinary profession has always been part of this great firmament of experts. The agencies include the APHA—the Animal and Plant Health Agency—which safeguards animal and plant health through research, surveillance and inspection, and CEFAS, the Centre for Environment, Fisheries and Aquaculture Science, which does the same for aquatic animal health.
UK laboratories are recognised as the world leader in 21 areas of animal health science—more than any other EU member state. This recognition is effected by the World Organisation for Animal Health—the OIE—which includes our own APHA and CEFAS. The UK Government have their own officers, such as the government and departmental chief scientific advisers, the Chief Veterinary Officer and the Chief Plant Health Officer. Again, there are opportunities to work with world-class universities and other institutions.
We also have several working groups that provide advice in decision-making processes to all UK Governments—jointly as well as singly—including the
national experts group, which, in the event of an outbreak of an exotic disease, provides UK policy teams and the CVOs with specific veterinary, technical and scientific advice and recommendations on the disease, its transmission and options for control. There is also the UK Surveillance Forum, which provides a structure and direction to develop a single view of the UK’s animal health status, and evidence to support it. Having worked with a number of these organisations, when I go to Europe there is a recognition of how world-leading we are in some of these areas. Borders and boundaries mean that whatever happens with future arrangements—I hope they are collaborative and strong—this is an area where partnership is clearly essential.
The noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, took up the matter of the devolved Administrations. We are committed to working closely with devolved Administrations on an approach that works for all of the UK and reflects the interests of all four UK nations. We are working with other Administrations to agree the detail of the process for delivering joint decision-making. Where matters are devolved and an Administration decide they would like to take their own statutory instrument forward I personally think that we should respect the devolved arrangements, provided we keep within the same framework. The essential thing is that the experience of all of this is done in a collaborative spirit of wanting to have a common framework, even if an Administration sometimes want to bring in their own SI.
On standard forms, raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, the intention is to allow trade to flow and not to interrupt it with unnecessary bureaucratic insistence on specific forms. There are likely to be perfectly understandable cases when the trader has completed the wrong form—the one that applied before we left—and this might be in cases of goods already in transit. In other words, we want pragmatism and common sense to prevail.
The noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, raised good husbandry. I understand why she did, not only because it applies to any animal but because it is the right thing to do. As the noble Baroness outlined, if you look after your stock, they will have a good reputation and will sell well. I have never understood why anyone would think it a good idea to bring indifferent stock to market, with the reputation that provides.
Going back to fish, some areas are already on our statute book. The Animal Welfare Act 2006 protects fish under control of humans from unnecessary suffering and places a duty on the person responsible for them to ensure that the needs of the fish are met. The Welfare of Animals (Transport) (England) Order 2006 applies specific welfare requirements when fish are being transported for commercial purposes, and EU regulation 1099/2009 on the protection of animals at the time of killing sets obligations to spare fish any avoidable pain, distress or suffering during killing or related operations. This will become retained EU law in our own arrangements. APHA and local authority inspectors have official responsibility for the enforcement of animal welfare legislation on fish farms.
On the question of which powers in aquatics and plants we have not transferred, no one could want a tidier life on these matters more than me, but there are further powers under the plant health directive and the aquatic animal health directive—for example, the power to amend the criteria for listing diseases. I have no doubt that attention will be paid to those matters. We face the dilemma of wanting to get as many of the things that are ready debated, but I understand that your Lordships are extremely busy and we want to ensure that these instruments are grouped as effectively as we can possibly manage. I know my noble friend Lady Vere and I feel as strongly as your Lordships about that.
On the question from the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, on seal products, I want to make it very clear that the regulations make operability changes and do not amend current restrictions or exemptions. The ban on importation of seal products into the EU is maintained in the UK. There is currently a derogation that permits the marketing of seal products from the hunts of Inuits and other indigenous communities when they are conducted for and contribute to the subsistence of those communities. This does not extend to those carried out primarily for commercial reasons. Currently, the European Commission has the power to prohibit or limit seal products placed on the market from Inuit hunts when evidence subsequently comes to light that they were actually from a commercial operation. Regulation 7(2)(b) will amend article 3(5) of the retained EU regulation to transfer this power from the European Commission to the Secretary of State. This will enable the Secretary of State to take appropriate action to restrict the marketing of seal products, should evidence come to light that they do not meet the derogation. Again, this is not, in absolutely any way, a diminution; it is to enable the Secretary of State to do what the Commission could have done, if evidence was to emerge.
The noble Baroness, Lady Jones, made a point on aquaculture and risk of disease. Most aquaculture production in the UK takes place in so-called open systems where fresh water is abstracted from rivers directed through aquaculture sites. In the case of marine aquaculture, aquatic animals are placed in rearing units immersed in seawater. Therefore, there is a potential for pathogens to be passed from wild aquatic animals to farmed aquatic animals, and vice versa. The main way to minimise the risk of pathogen spread is to prevent the introductions of the pathogens in the first place. Indeed, the UK applies strict rules to minimise the risk of pathogen introduction via trade in live aquatic animals. For example, aquatic animals imported into the UK for aquaculture purposes can be imported only if they come from areas that are shown to be free from those pathogens that the UK has declared free from.
My noble friend the Duke of Montrose was absolutely right: we are transferring through the withdrawal Act 2018 all the guts of these many regulations, which are the foundation of how we do things with animals, and aquatics and plant health. These two instruments ensure that, where there are distinct issues where the Commission was previously permitted to act, the
regulation-making powers are conferred on appropriate authorities—the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, mentioned this point. For aquatic animal health, these are the Secretary of State in England, Welsh Ministers in Wales, Scottish Ministers in Scotland, and the Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs in Northern Ireland. In other words, the “appropriate authority” is the appropriate Minister. It may be that, in the varying terms, they are the same thing, but I will look at that.
I will also look into the sheep matters for my noble friend the Duke of Montrose. Although it is somewhat different from these two particular instruments, it is really important that that is reflected. Some of the issues raised may well have gone beyond the precision of these two instruments, but I will look to see whether there are any particular questions or details, either within this instrument or beyond, that I may not have fully attended to. On this occasion, I beg to move.