UK Parliament / Open data

Counter-Terrorism and Border Security Bill

Lords Committee stage fourth day. Clause 21, as amended, agreed. New clauses discussed and withdrawn. Schedule 3, as amended, agreed. Clauses 22 to 27 agreed. Schedule 4 agreed. Bill reported with amendments.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

793 cc1887-1953 

Session

2017-19

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber
Counter-terrorism and Border Security Bill 2017-19. Brought from the Commons
Wednesday, 12 September 2018
Bills
House of Lords
Second legislative scrutiny report: Counter-Terrorism and Border Security Bill. Human Rights Joint Select Committee eleventh report with formal minutes.
Wednesday, 10 October 2018
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
House of Commons
Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee thirty-fifth report.
Wednesday, 17 October 2018
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
Counter-Terrorism and Border Security Bill. Constitution Committee (HL) fourteenth report.
Wednesday, 24 October 2018
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords

Show all related items (5)
Deposited Paper DEP2018-1152
Wednesday, 21 November 2018
Deposited papers
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 793 c1887 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Williams of Trafford

60: Clause 21, page 22, line 4, leave out from...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 793 cc1887-1890 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the government amendments in this group make a number of necessary changes to the provi...


Show all contributions (96)
Baroness Hamwee | 793 c1890 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have some small questions for the Minister, and I hope she has been given notice of t...

Lord Rosser | 793 c1890 (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps I may add one further question to those raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee. It rel...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 793 cc1890-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the kind of situation in which we can expect the urgency provisions to be used possibly...

Baroness Hamwee | 793 c1891 (Link to this contribution)

I asked about what is “reasonably practicable”.

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 793 c1891 (Link to this contribution)

She did, and I have the answer here—as if by magic. Paragraph 63 of the draft Schedule 3 code of ...

Lord Rosser | 793 c1892 (Link to this contribution)

I appreciate that the Government cannot stand at the Dispatch Box and announce that this will be ...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 793 c1892 (Link to this contribution)

There are several answers to that. Obviously, the Terrorism Act 2000 needs updating. The Salisbur...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 793 cc1892-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is my intention to oppose the Questions that Clause 21 and Schedule 3 stand part of ...

Lord Paddick | 793 cc1893-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb, in opposing the additional pow...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 793 cc1894-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we have already debated a number of points related to the new ports powers under Schedu...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 793 c1896 (Link to this contribution)

I have not quite understood. If these stops by border guards are to be based on intelligence, why...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 793 c1896 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I think we went through this other day. It is because officers may have fragmented info...

Lord Carlile of Berriew | 793 c1896 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. If somebody is coming through a port of entry and t...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 793 c1896 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord provides a very good example. It might not amount to reasonable suspicion, but the...

Lord Paddick | 793 cc1896-7 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Minister answer my question about why the wording from the Investigatory Powers Act 2016...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 793 c1897 (Link to this contribution)

Police stop and search is very often intelligence based. There may be areas where there is a high...

Lord Paddick | 793 c1897 (Link to this contribution)

The force I am quoting from is Dorset, if that helps the Minister.

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 793 c1897 (Link to this contribution)

That does help me, and of course it is where the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, lives. The noble Lor...

Baroness Manningham-Buller | 793 cc1897-8 (Link to this contribution)

It may help the Committee to focus on this as a counterespionage issue. In the years that I have ...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 793 c1898 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Baroness for her very experienced and helpful comments. She asked: is this a pa...

Lord Marlesford | 793 c1898 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Marlesford

61: After Clause 21, insert the following new Clause—

...

Lord Marlesford | 793 cc1898-1900 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in this country we allow, quite rightly, UK passport holders to be in the possession of...

Earl Howe | 793 cc1899-1902 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Marlesford for raising this matter and I acknowle...

Lord Marlesford | 793 c1902 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have great sympathy with my noble friend for having to read out a Home Office respons...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 793 c1903 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb

62: After Clause 21, insert the following new ...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 793 cc1903-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my Amendment 62 would require consultation on the right to protest and undertake peacef...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 793 cc1904-5 (Link to this contribution)

Amendment 62 proposed by the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb, seeks to add a new clause...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 793 c1905 (Link to this contribution)

Can I just say to the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, that I was not trying to corner the market in pro...

Lord Paddick | 793 c1905 (Link to this contribution)

I was not going to speak, and perhaps I should declare an interest, in that I have probably been ...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 793 c1905 (Link to this contribution)

My concern is that this is repressive legislation, and we are already finding that peaceful prote...

Earl Howe | 793 cc1905-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, for setting out the case for her propo...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 793 c1906 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister and beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 793 cc1906-8 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames

63: After Clause 21, insert the following new...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 793 cc1908-1910 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this amendment is also in the name of my noble friend Lord Paddick and the noble Lords,...

Baroness Hamwee | 793 cc1910-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my noble friend’s curtain-raiser has covered a great deal of the ground. I will speak t...

Lord Judge | 793 c1911 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I invite the Government to think rather carefully about this. This provision enables an...

Lord Pannick | 793 c1912 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I too am concerned about the subject, and I agree with the comments that have been made...

Lord Rosser | 793 c1912 (Link to this contribution)

We too are obviously concerned about the right to access a solicitor. My name, and that of my nob...

Lord Anderson of Ipswich | 793 cc1913-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the provisions relating to access to a lawyer, so far as they replicate those in Schedu...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 793 cc1914-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank noble Lords for their on these amendments, particularly the noble Lord, Lord Ma...

Lord Anderson of Ipswich | 793 c1916 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Baroness has asked whether I am satisfied with the response. As the independent reviewe...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 793 cc1916-7 (Link to this contribution)

I was going to use the word “shove”, but I will give them a push instead, which is probably more ...

Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames | 793 c1917 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister for the points that she has said she will consider. We will wait to...

Lord Rosser | 793 cc1917-8 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Rosser

63A: Schedule 3, page 38, line 35, at end insert—

“(3A) In...

Lord Rosser | 793 c1918 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as has been said, the Bill provides for a person to be questioned and detained under Sc...

Lord Anderson of Ipswich | 793 cc1918-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, for every person who is subject to a Schedule 7 examination, as I often used to report,...

Lord Carlile of Berriew | 793 cc1919-1920 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my noble friend Lord Anderson tempts me to say a few words on this matter. He is absolu...

Lord Paddick | 793 c1920 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I accept what the noble Lord has just said, but in my reading of the amendment, which u...

Lord Carlile of Berriew | 793 c1920 (Link to this contribution)

Does the noble Lord really think that an examining officer getting on to a bus at Dover should wa...

Lord Paddick | 793 c1920 (Link to this contribution)

My reading of the amendment is that it would differentiate between a Schedule 7 encounter, where ...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 793 cc1920-1 (Link to this contribution)

I thank noble Lords for their points on this amendment. I start by saying to the noble Lord, Lord...

Lord Rosser | 793 c1921 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for that response and all other noble Lords who have participated in this br...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 793 c1922 (Link to this contribution)

I think that the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, put it correctly. Rather than prescribe a list of ques...

Lord Rosser | 793 c1922 (Link to this contribution)

I take it from that that the Minister will be coming back to let us know the outcome. On that bas...

Lord Anderson of Ipswich | 793 c1922 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Anderson of Ipswich

66: Schedule 3, page 38, line 41, leave out “hostil...

Lord Anderson of Ipswich | 793 cc1922-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this amendment goes to the purposes for which the Schedule 3 power can be used. It rais...

Lord Judge | 793 c1924 (Link to this contribution)

I support this amendment, as I have supported every one of my noble friend Lord Anderson’s amendm...

Lord Pannick | 793 cc1924-5 (Link to this contribution)

I share the concern about the breadth of the definition of “hostile act” as covering acts which t...

Lord Paddick | 793 c1925 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I do not want to add to the comments that I made in the debate on whether Clause 21 and...

Lord Rosser | 793 c1925 (Link to this contribution)

I will be very brief indeed. We will listen with interest to what the Government have to say in r...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 793 cc1925-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I echo the words of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge: the noble Lord, Lord Anders...

Lord Anderson of Ipswich | 793 cc1927-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister and to all noble Lords who contributed to this debate, in...

Lord Rosser | 793 c1928 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Rosser

67ZA: Schedule 3, page 39, line 7, at end insert—

“( ) The...

Lord Rosser | 793 cc1928-9 (Link to this contribution)

As has been said on more than one occasion, Schedule 3 deals with border security and the power t...

Baroness Hamwee | 793 c1929 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I was not clear whether the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, was using this amendment to seek m...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 793 cc1929-1930 (Link to this contribution)

As the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, pointed out, Amendment 67ZA would require an examining officer to...

Lord Rosser | 793 cc1930-1 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for that response and the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, for her contribution ...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 793 c1931 (Link to this contribution)

Mercifully for the UK public, the number of people involved in hostile state activity is low. The...

Lord Rosser | 793 c1931 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for that response. I want to reflect on what has been said. In the meantime,...

Lord Marlesford | 793 c1931 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Marlesford

67A: Schedule 3, page 39, line 41, at end insert—

“( )...

Lord Marlesford | 793 cc1931-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in putting down this amendment, I am not particularly concerned with what the power sho...

Earl Howe | 793 c1932 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I hope I can reassure my noble friend Lord Marlesford at least in part. As he has expla...

Lord Marlesford | 793 c1932 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the only difference with what I seek is that if it is thought necessary to investigate ...

Earl Howe | 793 c1933 (Link to this contribution)

The argument is that the police and the authorities believe they have all the powers that they ne...

Lord Marlesford | 793 c1933 (Link to this contribution)

I hoped that my noble friend would realise that what I am proposing is the use of the DNA capabil...

Earl Howe | 793 c1933 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my noble friend. Possibly the answer is for me to write to him after this Commit...

Lord Paddick | 793 c1933 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with the Minister on the civil liberties issue. The other problem is that taking a DNA sa...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 793 c1933 (Link to this contribution)

I support the Minister and the noble Lord, Lord Paddick. It is quite rare for me to agree with th...

Lord Marlesford | 793 c1933 (Link to this contribution)

I have listened to what people have said. I think the Minister made the important point here: we ...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 793 c1934 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb

68: Schedule 3, page 39, line 41, at end inser...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 793 cc1934-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I spoke earlier in Committee about my opposition to the whole of Schedule 3. I shall no...

Lord Rosser | 793 cc1935-6 (Link to this contribution)

We have Amendment 69A in this group. The purpose of our amendment is to provide that, where an ex...

Lord Paddick | 793 c1936 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, briefly, I agree in principle with the intention behind the amendments, at least on con...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 793 cc1936-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I hope that I can reassure noble Lords with my explanation, but I thank those who have ...

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb | 793 c1939 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have listened very carefully and will reread the Minister’s arguments tomorrow. I do ...

Earl Howe | 793 c1939 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Earl Howe

70: Schedule 3, page 43, line 29, at end insert “, other than an a...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 793 cc1939-1942 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Williams of Trafford

72: Schedule 3, page 45, line 6, after “repres...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 793 cc1942-5 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Williams of Trafford

82: Schedule 3, page 47, line 6, at end insert...

Earl Howe | 793 c1946 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I do not wish to detain the Committee for long on this clause, but I would like to put ...

Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 793 c1946 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Howe of Idlicote

89: Clause 26, page 25, line 30, at beginning inse...

Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 793 cc1946-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to speak to Amendments 89 and 91 in my name and, in doing so, I thank the Minist...

Lord Morrow | 793 cc1949-1952 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, on bringing forward Amendments 89 and 91,...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 793 cc1951-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank both the noble Lord, Lord Morrow, and the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, for explai...

Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 793 c1953 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the Minister for her reply although it was obviously not the one I would have h...

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