UK Parliament / Open data

Crime (Overseas Production Orders) Bill [HL]

Debate on bills and Committee proceeding on Wednesday, 5 September 2018, in the House of Lords, led by Baroness Williams of Trafford. The answering members were Lord Kennedy of Southwark and Lord Rosser.
Lords Committee stage. Clauses 1 to 4 agreed.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

792 cc133-162GC 

Session

2017-19

Department

Home Office

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords Grand Committee
Crime (Overseas Production Orders) Bill (HL) 2017-19
Wednesday, 27 June 2018
Bills
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Baroness Hamwee | 792 c133GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Hamwee

1: Clause 1, page 1, line 10, at end insert—

“( ) A ju...

Baroness Hamwee | 792 cc133-4GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am speaking for these well-populated Benches. It would be right to start by saying th...


Show all contributions (72)
Baroness Williams of Trafford | 792 cc134-5GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Baroness for her introduction and I am very glad that the number of amendments ...

Baroness Hamwee | 792 c135GC (Link to this contribution)

I do not challenge the applicant’s duty to assist the court, but there is no opportunity for chal...

Lord Paddick | 792 c135GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Paddick

3: Clause 1, page 1, line 19, at end insert—

“( ) The Sec...

Lord Paddick | 792 cc135-7GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in moving Amendment 3 in my name and that of my noble friend Lady Hamwee, I will speak ...

Lord Rosser | 792 cc137-9GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, has said, we have tabled Amendment 8 and its objective...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 792 cc139-142GC (Link to this contribution)

Both noble Lords rightly raised the point of the death penalty in relation to any designated inte...

Lord Rosser | 792 c142GC (Link to this contribution)

Before the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, gives his answer, as I understand it this matter has been un...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 792 c143GC (Link to this contribution)

To deal with the first point on the death penalty, I thought I had made it clear but clearly I ha...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 792 c143GC (Link to this contribution)

It is not only my noble friend Lord Rosser who is confused about the death penalty, as I am confu...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 792 c143GC (Link to this contribution)

I understand the point that the noble Lord is making. I, not least, look forward to the discussio...

Lord Paddick | 792 c143GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am very grateful for the comments of all noble Lords on this group of amendments. I d...

Baroness Hamwee | 792 c144GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Hamwee

5: Clause 1, page 1, line 22, after “arrangement” insert “in...

Baroness Hamwee | 792 c144GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, our exchange on the previous group of amendments, when the Minister gave a lot of assur...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 792 cc144-5GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the noble Baroness has done her usual forensic job of going through the Bill and done a...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 792 cc145-7GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, and the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, for their points. I tu...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 792 c146GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister very much as I have learned something today about participants, which is use...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 792 c146GC (Link to this contribution)

Put simply, I think the parameters we are discussing are that there might be circumstances in whi...

Baroness Hamwee | 792 c146GC (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, may be thinking, as I am, that that begs another question. Clearly,...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 792 c146GC (Link to this contribution)

I do not usually intervene, but the noble Baroness’s words are worthy of reflection before Report...

Baroness Hamwee | 792 c146GC (Link to this contribution)

Of course, I am grateful for that. I was going to say that we have the delegated powers memorandu...

Lord Paddick | 792 c148GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Paddick

9: Clause 2, page 2, line 25, after “person” insert “exercising...

Lord Paddick | 792 c148GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the amendment is in my name and that of my noble friend Lady Hamwee. I shall speak also...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 792 c148GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the noble Lord raises an important point. In response, I am sure that the noble Barones...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 792 c148GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I hope that this amendment will not require any further meetings or probing on Report. ...

Lord Paddick | 792 c149GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am very grateful for that explanation provided by the Minister. The meeting of 20 min...

Lord Paddick | 792 c149GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Paddick

11: Clause 3, page 3, line 32, at end insert “but not bulk data...

Lord Paddick | 792 c149GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendment 11 is in my name and that of my noble friend Lady Hamwee. We debated long and...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 792 cc149-150GC (Link to this contribution)

Again, I hope that I can provide clarity on the noble Lord’s amendment. When applying for an over...

Lord Paddick | 792 c150GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful for the Minister’s explanation. I am not sure that it entirely satisfies ...

Lord Rosser | 792 c150GC (Link to this contribution)

If there is any doubt in this matter, as I understand it from the briefing that we had from the H...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 792 c150GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Lord because that underlines my point.

Lord Paddick | 792 c150GC (Link to this contribution)

If that is the case, there is no reason why it should not be stated in the Bill.

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 792 c150GC (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry, but I think I need to intervene. All sorts of things could be stated in the Bill, but...

Lord Paddick | 792 c150GC (Link to this contribution)

With the greatest respect to the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, he is talking about a bilateral agreeme...

Lord Rosser | 792 c150GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Rosser

12: Clause 3, page 3, line 39, leave out subsection (5)

Lord Rosser | 792 cc150-1GC (Link to this contribution)

This amendment is in my name, that of my noble friend Lord Kennedy, the noble Lord, Lord Paddick,...

Baroness Hamwee | 792 cc151-2GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my noble friend and I put our names to the amendment from the noble Lord, Lord Rosser—s...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 792 cc152-3GC (Link to this contribution)

It sounds as if the meeting could last more than a day. Amendment 12 would amend Clause 3(5) by e...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 792 c153GC (Link to this contribution)

She asked: why only professional counselling? The Government believe this to be an expansive defi...

Baroness Hamwee | 792 c153GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we have two definitions: “personal records” and “confidential personal records”. It is ...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 792 c153GC (Link to this contribution)

The noble Baroness may now have confused me. Both Clauses 3(7) and (8) have been drafted to refle...

Baroness Hamwee | 792 c154GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I think that was my argument. Might it be possible, between now and Report, for us to b...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 792 c154GC (Link to this contribution)

We can certainly do that—in fact, magically, we have it here. It reflects the definition in the P...

Baroness Hamwee | 792 c154GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I should just say that I accept that the terminology is used elsewhere: one of my amend...

Lord Rosser | 792 c154GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for her response. I will reflect on what she said about Amendment 12. I was ...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 792 c155GC (Link to this contribution)

I am not sure that I answered that point, other than to say that we would not want to narrow the ...

Lord Rosser | 792 c155GC (Link to this contribution)

Yes, I am sure that we can discuss that on another occasion or at the intended meeting. However, ...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 792 c155GC (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry to intervene on the noble Lord, but at the heart of the Bill lies the principle that w...

Lord Rosser | 792 c155GC (Link to this contribution)

I understand the point that the noble Baroness has made more than once: that we are unlikely to b...

Baroness Hamwee | 792 c155GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Hamwee

14: Clause 4, page 4, line 34, after “requirements” insert “...

Baroness Hamwee | 792 cc155-6GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have been consulting my noble friend as to whether I should be moving an adjournment ...

Countess of Mar | 792 c156GC (Link to this contribution)

I tend to sympathise with the noble Baroness. I was warned to bring my coat in before I came.

...
Baroness Williams of Trafford | 792 cc156-7GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, if I was a Whip, I would allow a short break if for no reason other than to go and get ...

Lord Rosser | 792 c157GC (Link to this contribution)

Before the noble Baroness responds, I have a question for the Minister. I have listened hard to w...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 792 c157GC (Link to this contribution)

In a sense, this is the same issue that the noble Lord referred to before. Because this is a fram...

Baroness Hamwee | 792 c157GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I would like to think about the response to Amendment 15. I think I made clear that I a...

Baroness Hamwee | 792 c157GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Hamwee

16: Clause 4, page 5, line 8, leave out “substantial” and in...

Baroness Hamwee | 792 c158GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this is another amendment in my name and that of my noble friend. Under Clause 4(5) the...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 792 c158GC (Link to this contribution)

I am very happy to tell the noble Baroness that this is purely British. “Substantial” is a well-e...

Baroness Hamwee | 792 c158GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I think I ought, after today, to consult my noble friend, who will know all about PACE,...

Baroness Hamwee | 792 c158GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Hamwee

17: Clause 4, page 5, line 11, leave out from second “that” ...

Baroness Hamwee | 792 c159GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, these amendments are about public interest and the balance between public interests. Cl...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 792 c159GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendments 17 and 18 do not add any protections for privacy rights to those already con...

Baroness Hamwee | 792 c159GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful for those helpful remarks. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Lord Paddick | 792 c159GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Paddick

19: Clause 4, page 5, line 19, at end insert—

“( ) The ju...

Lord Paddick | 792 cc159-160GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in moving Amendment 19 in my name and that of my noble friend Lady Hamwee, I will speak...

Lord Rosser | 792 c160GC (Link to this contribution)

I referred to the general issue that is the subject of the amendments spoken to by the noble Lord...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 792 cc160-2GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, for his points and the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, for his int...

Lord Paddick | 792 c162GC (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful to the Minister for her explanation and her offer to consider further the issu...

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