My Lords, with the leave of the House, I shall repeat as a Statement an Answer given to an Urgent Question in another place by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions on the National Audit Office report.
“I had information on the Question being the letter I received yesterday, so that is obviously where we will be going on the letter that I received yesterday. Opening up on that letter was about a meeting that the Comptroller and Auditor-General had asked to have with me on 27 June, when he wrote, and our department got back at the end of the week. That meeting will be on Monday. There was possibly an inference from that that I had not accepted the meeting, or that there was not going to be one, but that had not been the case and it is diarised for Monday.
The next bit was about the information we received and accurate, up-to-date information being shared with the department, to which we agreed information had been shared up to 6 June. But what we talked about is when we signed off the factual information contained within it, raising the concern about the context and the conclusions drawn from that information and where we went from there. That goes on to the impact of those changes and if we look at the impact of those that were brought through—the waiting days being abolished on 14 February, the housing benefit being run on 11 April and the advance payment of 3 January—as I said in my apology yesterday, the impact of those changes is still being felt. Therefore the definition could not or cannot be that they have been fully taken into account by the NAO.
The Auditor-General also talked about slowing down the process, which we always agreed with, which is about the test-and-learn process. We will learn as we go along; that is what we agree with, too. But when he said,
‘I am also afraid that your statement in response to my report … has not been proven’—
the case for universal credit—that is where we differ in the conclusions. So while the NAO had the same factual information either way, depending on where you looked at it and how you then come to conclusions, we then came to very different conclusions because of the impact of those changes that we had brought in at the end of that period, which are still being felt.
That is where I would like to leave it. It said that you cannot measure the exact number of additional people in employment—we will agree with that. You cannot measure the exact number of additional people but we knew there was a plausible range which we had support on. There is a plausible range of people going into employment and we know that employment is increasing. Those are the key pertinent points from the letter and included with my apology yesterday for the phrasing of the words that I got wrong, which I fully accept, hence I came to the House. I will end that bit of the Statement there”.
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