My Lords, there are a number of amendments in this group—I will seek to take them in turn—which relate to enabling franchising authorities to request information from local bus operators in connection with their franchising functions.
My noble friend Lord Attlee made some important points on Amendment 71 in relation to the purpose for which authorities may use information. The powers given to franchising authorities in this section are designed to ensure that they can obtain the information they need to take informed decisions about franchising schemes. We want the elected mayors and local transport authorities who take these decisions to have an appropriate understanding of the local bus market and robust information to inform their views of potential benefits, costs and risks.
Franchising authorities are able to request relevant information in connection with their functions only in relation to franchising schemes. They are not able to request the information for any other purpose under this section and would not be able to use this section to require information in the context of developing an enhanced or advanced partnership or an advanced ticketing scheme.
I can see that the industry might have concerns if this power were used regularly by authorities who were repeatedly contemplating high-level options—perhaps even without the agreement of elected members, or if the information, once obtained, was used for a different purpose. I also recognise that there are some potentially significant commercial risks for operators in providing this information.
It may be helpful if I clarify that the Bill ensures that franchising authorities are not obliged to publish information if they could refuse to disclose such information under freedom of information or environmental information legislation. There is nothing to prevent a bus operator informing a franchising authority of any concerns it may have about the impact of releasing certain information on its commercial interests. Let me assure the House that I expect all franchising authorities to consider such concerns before deciding how to use the information provided. I hope that that reassures my noble friend that I have sympathy with the spirit of his amendment. I do, however, have some concerns about how the change he proposes would work in practice.
First, the amendment would prevent the use of information in a franchising context after a scheme has been developed or made, such as at the procurement stage, which could have a material impact on the ability to implement a franchising scheme in practice. Secondly, the amendment could prevent appropriate information being included in the published consultation document or provided to third parties, such as the auditor of the scheme, who has an integral role in the process. I would therefore like to reflect on the helpful contribution from my noble friend on this issue and take time to consider how his points could best be addressed.
Amendment 72 in my noble friend’s name would require franchising authorities to pay a fee to local bus service operators from which they have required information in connection with their franchising functions. I know that my noble friend spoke very eloquently on this subject at Second Reading, and I understand that he is concerned about the commercially sensitive nature of the data, and value of those data. I also know that bus operators across the country have put years of hard work into developing their businesses, and have built up strong reputations and good will with customers and local people. I sympathise with the concerns that my noble friend expresses on behalf of the bus industry, but I need to balance those concerns against a desire to see well-informed decisions being made.
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I am therefore concerned that this amendment will act as a block to authorities getting the information they need to make those informed decisions, which I think acts against the interests of all parties. I hope that this discussion has persuaded my noble friend that, though I am very cognisant of the issues and sensitivities raised by the requirement to provide information, the provisions in the Bill are designed to make the franchising decision-making process as robust as possible.
Moving on, I agree with the spirit of Amendments 69A, 72A, 72B, 73 and 73A. It is not in the interests of passengers or other stakeholders for the development of a franchising scheme, for example, to take any longer than necessary. Extended uncertainty is also likely to hold commercial operators back from innovating or making significant investments in their existing services.
Amendment 73 specifies a 30-day timescale within which a bus operator is expected to have taken all reasonable steps to provide the information requested. However, the amendment does not place any obligation on an operator to take action within the 30-day period proposed. Rather, it requires the franchising authority to notify the traffic commissioner if it appears to them that an operator has not taken reasonable steps to provide information within that period.
I also remain to be convinced that 30 days is an appropriate timescale to specify in the legislation. There may be some circumstances where a more rapid response may be necessary and others where a longer timescale is needed. I do, however, appreciate the purpose of these amendments and wish to consider further how the issues might best be addressed. I hope that this reassures noble Lords that I am sympathetic
to the views expressed through the amendments and will be considering carefully the valuable contributions they have made.
The noble Baroness, Lady Jones, proposes Amendment 70, to require bus operators to provide information to franchising authorities about the environmental impact of bus services and their safety records. The Bill includes provision to allow franchising authorities to request information from bus operators about their services, to enable the authority to develop a robust assessment of their franchising scheme. The Bill lists types of information that can be requested, including information relating to revenue and patronage. The Bill also enables further categories of information to be specified in regulations, and I know that officials are working closely with local authorities and the bus industry to determine the nature of further categories of information that could be usefully specified.
Let me assure the noble Baroness that I agree entirely that the environmental impact of bus services and the safety of the public are issues that the franchising authority is likely to consider, and may look to address through its franchising proposal. However, some of the information that the amendment would enable franchising authorities to require will already be held by local authorities, such as the environmental impact of buses on the local area, and I am concerned about additional burdens being placed on bus operators. Therefore I would welcome further discussion on this topic, to determine how best we can achieve the objectives set out in the amendment.
The noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, proposed Amendment 74, to ensure that franchising authorities are not prevented from releasing information acquired from bus operators if that information is required for certain purposes, including for the purposes of criminal or civil proceedings. As she herself said, this is a probing amendment. In earlier Committee debates, she highlighted the differences in drafting between sections of the Bill. It may be helpful if I say a little more to explain the reasons behind this.
Once franchising is introduced in an area, there will be competition for contracts rather than competition on the road. Enhanced partnerships are a different scenario, with bus operators continuing to compete with each other on the road, albeit within the partnership framework. That is why different approaches are taken to the protection of information in the franchising and enhanced partnership sections of the Bill. Information acquired from operators in connection with enhanced partnerships must not be released if the authority could refuse to disclose it in response to a Freedom of Information Act request by relying on certain exemptions, particularly the exemption relating to commercial interests.
The aim is to protect bus operators’ commercial interests, as they will be competing with each other on the road. It would therefore be unfair for such information to make its way into the public domain where it could be used by a competitor. However, the enhanced partnership provisions make it clear that authorities are not prevented from disclosing certain information—for example, for the purposes of civil or criminal proceedings. The Bill simply makes it clear that the obligation to publish certain documents and information, such as the assessment of the franchising scheme, does not
require franchising authorities to publish information that they could refuse to disclose in response to a request under the Freedom of Information Act, so I think the Bill already addresses many of the noble Baroness’s concerns and the objective behind her amendment.
I thank all noble Lords for their contributions to this debate. I hope that the detail I have outlined has addressed most of the concerns which noble Lords have raised and therefore that the noble Lord will be willing to withdraw the amendment.