My Lords, I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, on what he has done over a number of years in this area. He was heavily involved with the Independent Monitoring Commission, which played a significant role in accelerating the move away from paramilitarism and enabling the institutions to be recreated on a more stable basis. That would not have happened but for the work of the International Monitoring Commission. Indeed, if the IMC had
been in existence before the summer of 2002, as some of us were trying to bring about, I do not think that the institutions would have collapsed in the autumn in the way that they did. That is the context that one should put the IMC in.
It was a very bad mistake to wind up the IMC so quickly. Had it been there, things would have been somewhat different. I understand the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice: just bringing back the IMC as it was would not be appropriate because we are in a slightly different context. But within that different context, we want to see that the new body will be just as effective in the contribution that it makes. That means looking a little more closely at some of the provisions here.
The noble Lord’s amendment refers to reporting by the IMC, which he wants to happen more frequently. The way for the Minister to achieve that is very simple. In that first clause, he should set out the words used in the so-called fresh start agreement. That agreement says in its paragraph 5.1:
“The body will: report annually on progress towards ending continuing paramilitary activity”.
Then it continues,
“(or on such further occasions as required)”.
That is all the Minister needs to do. He can table a simple amendment that would carry out the exact terms of the agreement that the Bill is supposed to be implementing. It solves the problems that have been mentioned just as long as no one tries to put too tight a construction on the phrase “as required”. I suggest that one does that without adding to the language in the fresh start agreement itself.
Part of the reason for saying that we should make sure that the language does not go too far, is that when we look at how the commission will exercise its functions as set out in Clause 2, something strange happens to the language used. It says:
“In exercising its functions, the Commission must not do anything which might … prejudice the national security interests … put at risk the life or safety of any person”.
Of course, national security and risks to persons are matters to which people should have regard in a situation such as this and bear in mind carefully, but how will the words “must not do anything” which could engender prejudice or cause a risk operate? How is the commission to construe that phrase? It is something that could create a chill in the commission’s operations so it would have to think, “Is there any risk attached to what we are doing?”. At what level does the risk become something where it must not do anything to bring it about?
There may be a way out of this. Trying to rewrite this clause is not something we can do easily in the time available to us, but there is a way to put this on a better basis, and that is in the provisions for the Secretary of State to issue guidance about the exercise of the function. That might use language that provides a better balance than the words before us here. Mention of the guidance raises the question: when will it become available? Will it be available before Third Reading? If it is not ready then, will it become available in a form that will enable this House to give it some scrutiny? These are matters about which we would like to hear from the Minister, and he will bear in mind that our
Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee has recommended that the guidance should be treated as a legislative instrument subject to negative resolution. That will enable scrutiny to take place here, so having it come out in a way that means we cannot look at it and then relate it to the overall objectives of the commission should be avoided if at all possible. I look forward with interest to what the Minister has to say on this point.
12.45 pm
I want to touch on one other point before I come to the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Empey. In the interpretation provision,
“agreement relating to paramilitary activity”,
is defined as being,
“in pursuance of paragraph 5.1”.
That provision relates only to the Independent Reporting Commission. There are a number of other things such as the strategy, which was drawn up by the three-man panel. Is that an agreement within the terms of the Bill? Is not the interpretation clause here drawn too narrowly because in addition to what the Independent Reporting Commission does, a whole lot of other things are mentioned in Section A of the fresh start agreement, so to confine agreement in the way that the interpretation clause does here leaves me scratching my head. I hope the Minister will elucidate that point for us.
Coming to the amendment in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Empey, I have a lot of sympathy for the points he has made. There is clearly a provision for the First Minister and Deputy First Minister acting jointly to have the power to nominate two persons. If they have the power to do that, inevitably party A will nominate Bloggs and party B will nominate Jones. Whether Bloggs and Jones are suitable people commanding international respect, which is set out as something to be recognised, is another matter. We should not lose hope on this because the mere fact that the First Minister and Deputy First Minister were able to agree on appointing a person to the panel to draw up the strategy shows that they can act responsibly and make a good appointment—of course, I am referring to the appointment of the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, to the panel. But if they are going to appoint two persons, rather than them agreeing in detail on the merit of those two persons, they are more likely just to do it as a political operation where each appoints one or the other. What happens if they appoint people who turn out to be close friends, colleagues and comrades in this struggle? Is that the end of the story? I think it would be desirable from the Government’s point of view to modify this provision and to talk about them nominating two people, but that there would be some scrutiny of whether they are proper persons to be appointed. It would not be too difficult to draft something that separates nomination from appointment.
Perhaps also, if one modifies that clause, one might have closer regard to the language of the fresh start agreement. On this point, it states that the Northern Ireland Executive, not the First and Deputy First Ministers, should nominate two members. That would mean that the proposals of the First and Deputy First
Ministers would have to come to the Northern Ireland Executive, where the SDLP, the Alliance Party and maybe, after the elections, the Ulster Unionist Party will be there. At least there would have to be some discussion—even if they come with the matter precooked—whereas under the present provisions the First and Deputy First Ministers go ahead without consulting their colleagues in the Executive. The language of fresh start could again be used on this point.
There is one final point on the strategy to end all paramilitary activity. That phrase—or at least its objectives—are reflected in the pledge of office by Ministers in Clause 7, about persons being prepared to challenge “all paramilitary activity”. On that, I draw the House’s attention to something mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, at Second Reading—he keeps cropping up in these brief few comments, but there we are. He drew the House’s attention to the very interesting words used by the Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness. The context for this was the events happening in Dublin and elsewhere, commemorating or marking the rebellion of 1916, where dissident republicans had been claiming that those events should be about remembering and implementing the wishes of the men of 1916.
The noble Lord said that Martin McGuinness said something like:
“‘I didn’t get involved in the things I got involved in during the 1960s because of the men of 1916. I got involved because of what I saw happening in the 1960s to my community, and that is not what is happening now. The excuse of 1916, or even of the 1960s, does not stand in the here and now’”.—[Official Report, 12/4/16; col. 244.]
That is a significant comment. He is, in effect, repudiating one of the lines that the dissident republicans use to build up their organisation, to recruit people and so on, which is, “But we’re only doing what the founding fathers of the Irish state did in 1916”, and, in parenthesis, in the subsequent guerrilla campaign against the British Administration in 1920 and 1921. Dissident republicans argue that they are only doing the same thing and they can claim some degree of endorsement from what happened historically. In his comments, Martin McGuinness takes away one limb of that.
I welcome that very much, and I am sure it has not been done without careful consideration by him, his colleagues and his party. He needs to go just one step further. The other argument that dissident republicans use, in reply to criticism from Sinn Fein and the republican movement generally, is, “We’re only doing what you did in the 1970s and the 1980s”. There is truth in that claim, because dissident republicans are trying to do very much the same thing. Indeed, the prison officer who died recently died as a result of a booby-trap bomb underneath his car. That is the fate suffered by dozens of people as a result of bombs developed by the IRA—part of the Irish republican movement, of which Mr McGuinness is a prominent member. He can take away that limb of the argument, too, by saying to dissidents simply, “Yes, we did that. We did what you’re doing now, but we realised it wasn’t going to work and we realised it was wrong, and in the present situation there can be no justification for repeating what we did”. They need to say that clearly and unequivocally. It will not be easy for them,
but they need to do it because that helps to remove any ground that dissident republicans can use to justify their activities.
That clear statement by Mr McGuinness and his colleagues would do more to enhance their perception in the community and to advance good, or improved, community relations than any of the schemes that were being dreamed up, which are thankfully not in the Bill but are, unfortunately, parked somewhere and might be wheeled in again. What we really need in Northern Ireland are things that will improve community relations and the way each section of the community addresses the other. That is an area where Martin could make a very significant contribution if he used the language I suggest.