My Lords, I support my noble friend Lord Hain and other noble Lords who have spoken on this amendment. I urge the Ministers, who appear to be in a very gracious mood this afternoon, to extend this graciousness to this particular aspect of the Bill. Otherwise, it seems to me that what we are doing is actually legislating for future conflict between the devolved Administrations, in this case Wales, and the United Kingdom Government.
My noble friend Lord Hain has mentioned how the Agricultural Wages Board situation some years ago went to the Supreme Court. When he and I held the offices of Secretary of State for Wales and for Northern Ireland, we decided, as a Government, that the best way we could resolve disputes between the new devolved Governments and the United Kingdom Government was through discussion and dialogue. We therefore had interministerial conferences, joint ministerial governance and all sorts of committees that met to iron out differences of opinion between the Governments of Wales, of Northern Ireland, of Scotland and of the United Kingdom.
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The last thing we should be doing is going to the Supreme Court on issues that need not go there. On this issue, it seems to me self-evident that, although employment law is indeed a British matter, the effects on public services are devolved matters. If the Supreme Court goes the same way that it did on the Agricultural Wages Board, the chances are that the Government will lose. So what on earth is the point of making laws that we know will bring about constitutional differences? It is utterly pointless.
I hope that when the Government reflect on these issues in the next week or two, they will be able to come back to the House and indicate that this is unnecessary. They have been extremely generous today on check-off. We understand that the facility time provisions might be changed as well. There is not much left in terms of what the Welsh Government asked—although I think they also talked about the 40% threshold—but the issue is not particularly about the details of the Bill, but where this country goes in respecting the devolved Administrations.
I agree again with my noble friend Lord Hain when he said that we are in danger of breaking up. In my view, and that of my party, the best way to avoid the break-up of the United Kingdom is to ensure that we have effective devolved Governments that work together with the United Kingdom Government for the benefit of the people of all our nations and regions.
I also agree with the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, who mentioned that we have a different way of doing things in Wales. Yes, there is no junior doctors’ strike there; there is a social contract between trade unions, the Government, local authorities and others in Wales that works well. Indeed, my noble friend Lady Prosser referred in the previous group of amendments to a civilised and sensible way we can deal with each other. So far as this matter is concerned, the civilised and sensible way is to drop the legislation and move forward in the spirit of the concessions that the Government have made this afternoon.