UK Parliament / Open data

Housing and Planning Bill

Lords committee stage second day. Clauses 55 to 61 agreed to. Clause 1 under consideration. Part 1 of 2.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

769 cc702-768 

Session

2015-16

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber
Housing and Planning Bill 2015-16. Brought from the Commons
Wednesday, 13 January 2016
Bills
House of Lords
Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee twentieth report.
Wednesday, 3 February 2016
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
Housing and Planning Bill
Tuesday, 1 March 2016
Parliamentary proceedings
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Earl Cathcart | 769 c702 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Earl Cathcart

24: After Clause 54, insert the following new Clause—

“R...

Earl Cathcart | 769 cc703-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the first two amendments are in the name of my noble friend Lord Flight, who, unfortuna...


Show all contributions (145)
Lord Best | 769 cc704-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as this is my first intervention in Committee, I draw attention to my various housing a...

Lord Beecham | 769 cc705-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I congratulate the noble Earl, Lord Cathcart, and the noble Lord, Lord Best, on their p...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 cc707-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lord Cathcart for explaining on behalf of my noble friend Lord ...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 769 c709 (Link to this contribution)

Before the noble Baroness sits down, I think her response to the national rent deposit guarantee ...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c709 (Link to this contribution)

I think that the noble Lord will accept that the fact that the scheme is currently working very w...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 769 c709 (Link to this contribution)

I am aware that this is Committee stage. How many local authorities have such schemes in place, a...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c709 (Link to this contribution)

May I come back to the noble Baroness on those specific details?

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 769 c709 (Link to this contribution)

Of course, but I would have thought that if the Minister was responding on cost plans, she might ...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c710 (Link to this contribution)

That is very true. If the noble Baroness will forgive me, I will come back to her. I may well hav...

Lord Beecham | 769 c710 (Link to this contribution)

I wish to return to the issue of the deposit scheme. The noble Baroness relies on the apparent su...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c710 (Link to this contribution)

I will look at it again, but this is covered in How to Rent. I certainly know from my own experie...

Lord Beecham | 769 c710 (Link to this contribution)

I understand the difficulties of all this, but I do not think that the noble Baroness quite has t...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c710 (Link to this contribution)

I will go away and explore the points that the noble Lord has made. I will write to him.

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 769 c711 (Link to this contribution)

I will come back briefly to the national deposit scheme. When the noble Baroness writes to my nob...

Earl Cathcart | 769 c711 (Link to this contribution)

I think my noble friend has finally sat down. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, for supportin...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 769 c711 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Kennedy of Southwark

29: After Clause 54, insert the following new Clau...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 769 cc711-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I declare an interest as a councillor in the London Borough of Lewisham. Amendment 29 i...

Earl of Lytton | 769 cc712-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I hate to voice a tone of slight dissent from what the noble Lord has introduced becaus...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 769 cc713-4 (Link to this contribution)

I very much support my noble friend’s amendment, which proposes that any tenancy must be offered ...

Earl of Lytton | 769 c714 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, will the noble Baroness comment on the following scenario, which happens very often in ...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 769 c714 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in that situation I would expect there to be an agreement. Where a landlord is seeking ...

Baroness Gardner of Parkes | 769 c714 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am very interested in this subject—noble Lords know my interests as declared—and I am...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 769 c715 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the proposal is that the landlord should be required to offer it, but that does not in ...

Baroness Gardner of Parkes | 769 c715 (Link to this contribution)

All the agreements for letting residential properties in this country are extremely complicated. ...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 769 cc715-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, perhaps I can deal with the noble Baroness’s comment on what happens in the event that ...

Lord Greaves | 769 cc716-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I want to put this problem in a slightly wider context. The noble Baroness, Lady Hollis...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 cc717-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendment 29, if enacted, would introduce a minimum of three-year tenancies in the priv...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 769 c718 (Link to this contribution)

If the landlord were reluctant to let the property, what would then happen? It would go on the ma...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 cc718-9 (Link to this contribution)

It may not go on the market. It may, as I and other noble Lords have said, be for the use of the ...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 769 c719 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords for participating in this short debate. I say to the noble Earl...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 769 c719 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Kennedy of Southwark

34: Clause 55, page 25, line 29, at end insert—

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 769 cc720-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, at Second Reading I and many other noble Lords expressed reservations about the proposa...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 769 c721 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this is a particularly important amendment, as I read it. I am sorry that I slightly mi...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 769 c721 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I also support my noble friend’s amendment. I understand from briefings from Crisis and...

Baroness Gardner of Parkes | 769 c722 (Link to this contribution)

May I ask for some clarification? When I sat as a magistrate, we had a case of a tenant whose lan...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 769 c722 (Link to this contribution)

There should, of course, be no problem over landlords repossessing genuinely abandoned property. ...

Lord True | 769 c722 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I declare an interest as leader of a local authority. I have not so far intervened in t...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 769 c722 (Link to this contribution)

I can tell noble Lords what it would lead to. In the event that the rogue landlord manages to get...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 769 c722 (Link to this contribution)

Doing some quick mental arithmetic, I suspect that we are talking about four to five instances pe...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 769 c723 (Link to this contribution)

I am not a leader of a local authority, but I am a member of one, so I understand the noble Lord’...

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park | 769 c723 (Link to this contribution)

I thank all noble Lords for their amendments and contributions to the debate. As the noble Barone...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 769 c723 (Link to this contribution)

Who will check that the landlord is not acting like a rogue and that the property is actually aba...

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park | 769 cc723-5 (Link to this contribution)

I will go through the process, which contains checks and balances which will ensure that a tenant...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 769 c724 (Link to this contribution)

This is my first foray into this Bill, and I draw attention to my interests in the register. Clau...

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park | 769 c724 (Link to this contribution)

The first warning notice would not in practice be able to be served unless four consecutive weeks...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 769 c724 (Link to this contribution)

I would be grateful if the Minister could do so because, on the face of it, the provision seems o...

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park | 769 c724 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, I am happy to clarify. I have talked about a lot of notices and warnings; perhaps it would b...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 769 c724 (Link to this contribution)

Under the provisions for universal credit—it is something that I regret very much, although it is...

Lord True | 769 cc724-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I do not want to intervene on the Minister, but Clause 56(1)(a) states:

“The unpa...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 769 c726 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister explained the process for getting possession of a property believed to have been aba...

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park | 769 c726 (Link to this contribution)

I set out the overall process but of course we will have to be mindful of people being able to ac...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 769 c726 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister also said that when the tenant of the property believed to have been abandoned has b...

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park | 769 c726 (Link to this contribution)

I will have to get back to the noble Lord. I am afraid I do not have that information.

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 769 c726 (Link to this contribution)

That would be very helpful. In this short debate we have highlighted a few issues with this secti...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 769 c726 (Link to this contribution)

I have one further question. If the rent condition is initially not met but then there is a payme...

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park | 769 c726 (Link to this contribution)

I am happy to agree to meet with noble Lords interested in this area so perhaps they could list a...

Lord Beecham | 769 cc726-7 (Link to this contribution)

I declare two interests: one is my local government interest which is in the register. In that co...

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park | 769 c727 (Link to this contribution)

I believe that the noble Lord is correct about legal aid, but I hope he will permit me to go back...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 769 c727 (Link to this contribution)

Before we finish on this amendment, does the Minister understand that very often we are talking a...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 769 c727 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, already social housing landlords—housing associations and so on—are beginning to deal w...

Lord True | 769 c728 (Link to this contribution)

I do not dissent from what the noble Baroness said, nor from what the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-S...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 769 c728 (Link to this contribution)

I thank all noble Lords who have spoken in this debate and I thank the Minister for agreeing to m...

Baroness Grender | 769 cc728-730 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in the most recent discussion, the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, suggested that perhaps thi...

Lord Kerslake | 769 cc730-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have concerns about this section of the Bill. I am very much taken with the arguments...

Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville | 769 cc731-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this is the first time I have spoken in Committee today, so I draw your Lordships’ atte...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 769 c732 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Grender, for proposing that this whole part should be a...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 769 c732 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I agree with those who say that these provisions should be recast. I want to pick up on...

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park | 769 cc732-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have contributed to this debate on Part 3 of the Bill. The ...

Baroness Grender | 769 c733 (Link to this contribution)

Have the Government made an estimate of the cost to a tenant? Since there is a cost of £5 million...

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park | 769 c733 (Link to this contribution)

As I have said, we have heard the strength of feeling in the House on this issue and have agreed ...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 769 c733 (Link to this contribution)

Can the Minister tell us a little about where the pressure for these changes is coming from? We h...

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park | 769 c734 (Link to this contribution)

As I have explained, the rationale behind this is to attempt to provide balance and fairness for ...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 769 c734 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Minister help me on one other point, please? On the reference to rent not being paid, or...

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park | 769 c734 (Link to this contribution)

Obviously, there will be a dialogue between tenant and landlord, and arrangements between the two...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 769 c734 (Link to this contribution)

I understand that if the rent is paid in full you go back to square 1. But if the rent is only pa...

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park | 769 c734 (Link to this contribution)

In terms of part-payment of rent, if any rent is being paid, the process would be ended. It is ab...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 769 c734 (Link to this contribution)

So, a pound off the rent would secure the position.

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park | 769 c734 (Link to this contribution)

There would be a balanced view on this. As I have tried to set out, where payment is being made, ...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 769 c734 (Link to this contribution)

Does this not all point to the need to have someone to check? That might well be a local authorit...

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park | 769 c734 (Link to this contribution)

As I have said, we believe there is a process that has a number of important elements to it. Howe...

Lord Greaves | 769 c735 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Greaves

36A: After Clause 61, insert the following new Clause—

“R...

Lord Greaves | 769 cc735-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my purpose in moving this amendment is to raise a significant problem in some parts of ...

Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 769 c737 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am very supportive of the amendment moved by the noble Lord, Lord Greaves. Empty home...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 769 c737 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord, Lord Greaves, referred specifically to properties in the north of England. In my ...

Lord Beecham | 769 cc738-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, on bringing forward this amendment. This i...

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park | 769 c739 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this amendment would insert a new clause into the Bill requiring a review of the effect...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 769 c739 (Link to this contribution)

When the Minister talks about empty homes, does she mean homes on which no council tax is being p...

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park | 769 cc739-740 (Link to this contribution)

That figure relates to unoccupied homes.

As the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, highlighted, loca...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 769 c740 (Link to this contribution)

Sorry, I am not going to let this question go. Some unoccupied homes have council tax paid on the...

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park | 769 c740 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord makes a valid point. As he has kindly suggested, I will write to him with further ...

Lord Greaves | 769 cc740-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister, half of whose speech was exactly the one I made in listi...

Lord Tope | 769 c741 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Tope

36B: Clause 1, page 1, line 6, after “promote” insert “home owners...

Lord Tope | 769 cc741-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in moving this amendment I will also speak to the 11 other amendments standing in my na...

Lord Lansley | 769 cc743-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak to Amendment 36B, just moved, and refer to Amendments 47A and 53A in my na...

Lord Best | 769 cc745-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendment 47B and 53B follow on from the amendment in the name of the noble Lord, Lord ...

Lord Kerslake | 769 cc746-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I add my support to this group of amendments, and I declare an interest as chair of Pea...

Baroness Redfern | 769 c747 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in speaking to this group of amendments, particularly in reference to home ownership an...

Lord Stoneham of Droxford | 769 cc747-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am pleased to support my noble friend Lord Tope on these amendments, particularly the...

Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 769 cc748-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, like the noble Lord, Lord Tope, who introduced the lead amendment, I believe that there...

Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville | 769 cc749-751 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I agree with most of the points made on this first tranche of amendments in this chapte...

Lord Horam | 769 cc751-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I do not want to speak for any length of time because in discussing these amendments an...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 769 cc753-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, that contribution was the key one in our debate, because it raises the issue of the imp...

Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 769 c754 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I hope I will be forgiven for intervening again. The noble Lord, Lord Horam, mentioned ...

Lord Horam | 769 c754 (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps I can just explain that the Minister was not present at the meeting. She kindly arranged ...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 769 cc754-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, what worries me above all is that starter homes are supposed to fly the flag for afford...

Earl of Lytton | 769 cc755-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, at the risk of prolonging this very interesting debate, I should say that my employer i...

Lord Greaves | 769 c757 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have three questions for the Minister. They are not particularly related, but they ar...

Lord Greaves | 769 c757 (Link to this contribution)

Well, yes, it would not be difficult. Perhaps that is why he was never in the same party as me.

Lord Greaves | 769 cc757-8 (Link to this contribution)

He came very close. We had our times together.

Then I heard the noble Lord talk about unint...

Lord Beecham | 769 cc758-761 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this has been a very interesting debate. I have to say that I rather struggled, as, I s...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c761 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, before I begin my reply on this group of amendments, perhaps I may point out that Amend...

Lord Tope | 769 c761 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I do not know exactly what is going on, but I recall starting very clearly by saying th...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c761 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I just tried to do that for completion’s sake and to be helpful.

Lord Kerslake | 769 c762 (Link to this contribution)

I think that many of us split up our contributions in the expectation that we would consider Amen...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c762 (Link to this contribution)

In which case, do noble Lords want a response to it now, or to wait until the next group?

Lord Beecham | 769 c762 (Link to this contribution)

Seeing as I have confused everybody—including myself—I think it would be better to deal with Amen...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c762 (Link to this contribution)

If that is what noble Lords would like, that is what we will do. I just wanted all noble Lords to...

Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 769 c762 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, how does the noble Baroness square that circle? It is great that the Government wish to...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 cc762-3 (Link to this contribution)

I was going to come on to that later, but I will deal with it now. Excluding London—I absolutely ...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 769 c763 (Link to this contribution)

We all share the concept of mixed tenures. I built several thousand houses for sale when builders...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c763 (Link to this contribution)

I get what the noble Baroness says, but for home ownership there are those at the bottom as well....

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 769 c763 (Link to this contribution)

All of the Section 106 land on which alternative, affordable rented housing would be built will b...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c763 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, there will be an expectation from the Secretary of State that a certain percentage of h...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 769 c764 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, there are some 9,000 or 10,000 families in Norfolk, waiting patiently on waiting lists ...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c764 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the £1.6 billion to build 100,000 affordable rented homes will add to the mix of addres...

Lord Greaves | 769 c764 (Link to this contribution)

I wonder if I can just tempt the Minister again to say perhaps that in many parts—or even most pa...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c764 (Link to this contribution)

I do not think that the noble Lord is wrong that in certain parts of the country—and I think I kn...

Lord Beecham | 769 c764 (Link to this contribution)

One of the interventions the Government have made has been to impose a 1% reduction in rents for ...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c764 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we have talked a lot this afternoon about tenants and tenants on lower incomes and actu...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 769 c765 (Link to this contribution)

Three-quarters of the money saved goes back to the Exchequer; only one-quarter stays with tenants...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c765 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, could I just make some progress? I may be repeating myself here but the noble Baroness,...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 769 c765 (Link to this contribution)

On that matter the Minister said that a £150,000 house was affordable on an income of £26,000. Th...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c765 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the example I gave was a couple on a mean wage of £26,000, not one person on £26,000. F...

Lord Lansley | 769 c765 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my noble friend the Minister but, as I expressly said in my contribution, I am l...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 cc766-7 (Link to this contribution)

That is fine. I just thought I would set that out now. I know we will be talking about it later.<...

Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 769 c767 (Link to this contribution)

I am terribly sorry—I know that it is dinner time and people are anxious to move away from this d...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c767 (Link to this contribution)

I understand the frustrations of noble Lords, and I feel a degree of frustration myself. It is no...

Earl of Listowel | 769 c767 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have been listening to this debate with great interest and, in thanking the Minister ...

Baroness Williams of Trafford | 769 c767 (Link to this contribution)

If there is one thing on which we can all agree in this Chamber, it is the need to supply more ho...

Lord Tope | 769 c768 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am very grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken, and to the Minister who has done...

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