UK Parliament / Open data

Welfare Reform and Work Bill

Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bills on Wednesday, 9 December 2015, in the House of Lords, led by Lord Freud.
Lords committee stage second day. Clauses 4 to 6, and clauses 13 and 14 agreed to. Part 1 of 2.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

767 cc1568-1636 

Session

2015-16

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber
Welfare Reform and Work Bill 2015-16. Brought from the Commons.
Wednesday, 28 October 2015
Bills
House of Lords
Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee thirteenth report.
Wednesday, 18 November 2015
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
Welfare Reform and Work Bill
Wednesday, 9 December 2015
Parliamentary proceedings
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2015-1009
Tuesday, 22 December 2015
Deposited papers
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 767 c1568 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Lister of Burtersett

24: Clause 4, page 4, line 38, at end insert—<...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 767 cc1569-1570 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in moving Amendment 24 and speaking to Amendment 26, I also make clear my support for A...


Show all contributions (79)
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 767 cc1570-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I added my name to this amendment. I do not want to add anything to what was said by my...

Baroness Manzoor | 767 cc1571-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendments 24, 26 and 46, to which I have added my name along with tho...

Earl of Listowel | 767 cc1572-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to speak to my Amendment 25 in this group. Before I do so, I apologise to your L...

Baroness Blackstone | 767 cc1573-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I apologise that I was not able to speak at Second Reading. Had I done so, I would have...

Baroness Grey-Thompson | 767 c1576 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendment 25 in the name of my noble friend Lord Listowel, to which my...

Baroness Stroud | 767 cc1576-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, until now, we have focused on measuring income by the HBAI statistics. But if we also m...

Lord Liddle | 767 cc1577-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I had not intended to speak in this debate. I am no social security expert, but I did h...

Bishop of Durham | 767 cc1578-1580 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak in support of Amendments 24, 25 and 26. I know that everyone in this House...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 767 cc1580-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am keen to follow up on the speech of the noble Baroness, Lady Stroud. She has asked ...

Lord Hylton | 767 c1581 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have much sympathy with the amendments in this group, but at the risk of appearing pe...

Lord Freud | 767 c1581 (Link to this contribution)

I can answer that. It is a general way across the world that social scientists compare family to ...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 767 cc1581-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this has been a thoughtful and extensive debate. Amendments 24 and 26 in the name of my...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 767 c1582 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry to intervene, but I wanted to ask the Minister whether he could answer a specific ques...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 767 c1582 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my noble friend for that intervention. I doubt there is much that she does not understand...

Lord Freud | 767 c1582 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, if we are taking a trip down memory lane, I remind the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, that ...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 767 c1584 (Link to this contribution)

Does the noble Lord accept that the issues he was talking about were quite properly to be include...

Lord Freud | 767 cc1584-5 (Link to this contribution)

I shall address the amendments. I am sure the noble Lord will come back to me on some of these is...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 767 c1585 (Link to this contribution)

And low earnings, my Lords. It says, in brackets, “low earnings”.

Lord Freud | 767 c1585 (Link to this contribution)

It referred to “low earnings” out of worklessness; that is why the brackets are there.

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 767 c1585 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, that is one reading of it. I am sorry to trouble the Committee with this but the review...

Lord Freud | 767 cc1585-6 (Link to this contribution)

I will come to the point about the in-work and the workless in a little while. Let me go on.

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Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 767 c1586 (Link to this contribution)

We are putting a lot of emphasis on full-time employment, but children in persistent or recurrent...

Lord Freud | 767 c1587 (Link to this contribution)

I can only provide the noble Baroness with these relative statistics on what is happening—where t...

Baroness Blackstone | 767 c1587 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, would the Minister agree that most of those who have taken part in this debate have no ...

Lord Freud | 767 c1587 (Link to this contribution)

I actually think the difference between us here is not as great as it might look. The division is...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 767 c1587 (Link to this contribution)

Given what the Minister just said, will he now accept the case for keeping the income measures in...

Earl of Listowel | 767 c1588 (Link to this contribution)

Before the Minister replies, it might be helpful to remind him that the amendment on targets is i...

Lord Freud | 767 c1588 (Link to this contribution)

In practice, that is not the case. There are two sets of amendments in this group and Amendment 4...

Baroness Blackstone | 767 c1588 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, though the Minister makes a commitment, will he accept that, as is so often said in thi...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 767 c1588 (Link to this contribution)

I agree that we should have this in legislation but can the Minister confirm that his personal co...

Lord Freud | 767 cc1588-9 (Link to this contribution)

I think the noble Baroness, Lady Lister, will support me here but my memory is that the material ...

Earl of Listowel | 767 c1589 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the noble Lord, and, in particular, to the noble Baroness, Lady Stroud, for rais...

Lord Freud | 767 c1589 (Link to this contribution)

I will write, because the issues that the noble Earl raises are genuinely important and difficult...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 767 cc1589-1590 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken. It has been a remarkably well-informed and...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 767 c1590 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Lister of Burtersett

31: Clause 4, page 5, line 16, at end insert—<...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 767 cc1590-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is me again. I shall speak also to Amendments 36 to 45, 47 and 48 and make clear my ...

Earl of Listowel | 767 cc1592-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to speak to my Amendments 32, 33 and 49 in this grouping. Before doing so, I am ...

Baroness Grey-Thompson | 767 cc1594-5 (Link to this contribution)

I shall speak to Amendments 32 and 33, which are in my name. It is essential to have a strategy—i...

Baroness Maddock | 767 cc1595-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak to my Amendment 35. Observant noble Lords may have noticed that the last ...

Bishop of Durham | 767 c1597 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to speak first to Amendment 31. Given the serious enthusiasm that the Government...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 767 cc1597-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall be brief because I know that we want to make progress today. I support wholehea...

Lord Freud | 767 cc1598-9 (Link to this contribution)

I hope that what I have to say on this group of amendments will be a little more pleasing, althou...

Baroness Maddock | 767 c1600 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for reiterating that. I raised this at Second Reading and if he had answered...

Lord Freud | 767 cc1600-2 (Link to this contribution)

I apologise to the noble Baroness for not dealing with the matter earlier, and I am pleased with ...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 767 c1602 (Link to this contribution)

I asked a specific question about the future of the Child Poverty Unit. Would the Minister answer...

Lord Freud | 767 c1602 (Link to this contribution)

We will ensure that there is a full range of Civil Service support to drive forward the agenda. W...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 767 cc1602-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken, particularly the right reverend Prela...

Lord Patel | 767 c1603 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Patel

50: Clause 13, page 14, line 24, at end insert—

“( ) Subsec...

Lord Patel | 767 cc1603-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my turn has come—rather sooner than I thought it would. In moving Amendment 50, I will ...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 767 cc1606-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this is an extremely important group of amendments. On behalf of the Labour Benches, my...

Baroness Manzoor | 767 cc1608-1610 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we on these Benches strongly oppose the question that Clauses 13 and 14 stand part of t...

Lord Low of Dalston | 767 cc1610-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I gave notice that I wish to oppose Clause 13 standing part of the Bill and I now wish ...

Baroness Meacher | 767 cc1612-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise to support Amendment 50, moved by my noble friend Lord Patel. I also support the...

Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 767 cc1615-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my Amendment 51 would amend the Welfare Reform Act 2007 to include people with mental h...

Lord Layard | 767 cc1616-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I speak to Amendment 52, the purpose of which is to remedy an extraordinary anomaly. We...

Lord Lansley | 767 cc1618-1620 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise briefly to contribute to this debate. I am pleased to have the opportunity to do...

Lord Low of Dalston | 767 c1620 (Link to this contribution)

I understand the point the noble Lord is making, but I put it to him that the contradiction he po...

Lord Lansley | 767 c1620 (Link to this contribution)

I entirely understand what the noble Lord said. That is indeed true. The point I am making is tha...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 767 c1621 (Link to this contribution)

Would the noble Lord agree that the Department for Work and Pensions has always understood that d...

Lord Lansley | 767 c1621 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Baroness is drawing me into a debate that I was not intending to enter into. My point w...

Baroness Manzoor | 767 c1621 (Link to this contribution)

Surely with his health background the noble Lord is not saying that people who have been deemed t...

Lord Lansley | 767 c1621 (Link to this contribution)

No, it is not—and I do not think that we should construe an incentive structure as being coercion...

Baroness Hollins | 767 cc1621-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have put my name to a number of amendments in this group and shall speak briefly to t...

Baroness Tyler of Enfield | 767 cc1623-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will briefly speak to Amendment 52, to which I have put my name. In so doing I expres...

Lord Beecham | 767 c1624 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health recently published a report which sugg...

Lord Blencathra | 767 cc1624-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in introducing his amendment, I think that the noble Lord, Lord Patel, said quite early...

Baroness Doocey | 767 cc1625-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, reading the text of Clauses 13 and 14, as with so much legislation, does little to reve...

Baroness Grey-Thompson | 767 cc1627-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I want to talk about the review of ESA, which I was involved in, along with my noble fr...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 767 cc1629-1630 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson, has made a very powerful case as to why cutting benefits ...

Lord Freud | 767 cc1630-1 (Link to this contribution)

Clauses 13 and 14 remove the work-related activity component and limited capability for work elem...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 767 c1631 (Link to this contribution)

I just read out the whole paragraph that that quote is taken from, which makes it quite clear tha...

Lord Freud | 767 c1631 (Link to this contribution)

I am not now looking at recommendations for action. I am just looking at what evidence we have th...

Lord Low of Dalston | 767 c1631 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry to have been a little slow in coming back to the Minister; it took me a little while t...

Lord Freud | 767 cc1632-3 (Link to this contribution)

That is the point that I just made: they could not determine the extent but they could determine ...

Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 767 c1633 (Link to this contribution)

Could the Minister give us some assurance about the impact of the 60% reduction in the department...

Lord Freud | 767 cc1633-5 (Link to this contribution)

That is a massive question. The short answer is that because universal credit is a much more effi...

Lord Patel | 767 c1636 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we have now been talking for about two hours and seven minutes, with some 17 speakers. ...

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