UK Parliament / Open data

Scotland Bill

Debate on bills on Tuesday, 24 November 2015, in the House of Lords, led by Lord Dunlop. The answering members were Lord Hollick and Lord McAvoy.
Lords second reading. Amendment debated and withdrawn. Original motion agreed to on question. Bill committed to a Committee of the Whole House.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

767 cc571-674 

Session

2015-16

Department

Scotland Office

Legislative stage

Second reading

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber
Scotland in the United Kingdom: An enduring settlement
Thursday, 22 January 2015
Command papers
House of Lords
House of Commons
Scotland Bill 2015-16. Brought from the Commons.
Tuesday, 10 November 2015
Bills
House of Lords
Scotland Bill (HL Bill 73 of 2015-16)
Wednesday, 18 November 2015
Research briefings
Deposited Paper DEP2015-0949
Thursday, 3 December 2015
Deposited papers
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

Lord Dunlop | 767 cc571-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the United Kingdom is the most successful multinational state the world has ever known....

Lord Maxton | 767 c572 (Link to this contribution)

Is the Minister saying that the vow was the way in which the referendum was won? My view is that ...


Show all contributions (128)
Lord Dunlop | 767 c572 (Link to this contribution)

Fundamentally, I think it was the economic arguments that were decisive in the referendum. When t...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 767 c572 (Link to this contribution)

Could my noble friend confirm that, according to the article written by the editor of the Daily R...

Lord Dunlop | 767 cc572-5 (Link to this contribution)

I am not quite clear whether he is saying that it was my idea or Gordon Brown’s. The key point ab...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 767 c575 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry to interrupt again, but can my noble friend explain what the second no-detriment princ...

Lord Dunlop | 767 cc575-6 (Link to this contribution)

I shall come on to speak about the fiscal framework. The Government of Scotland and the UK Govern...

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 767 c576 (Link to this contribution)

I am sure the House will recognise that, but can the Minister help us? If, during the discussions...

Lord Dunlop | 767 c576 (Link to this contribution)

I seem to have heard “plan B” somewhere before. I say to the noble Lord that we are planning for ...

Lord Reid of Cardowan | 767 c576 (Link to this contribution)

I would just like to probe a little on the Government’s view that it is unhelpful to have a timel...

Lord Dunlop | 767 c576 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Lord. In broad terms, the Scottish Government and the UK Government are working...

Baroness Liddell of Coatdyke | 767 c577 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful to the noble Lord for giving way; he has been very generous. One of my concern...

Lord Dunlop | 767 c577 (Link to this contribution)

As I said, we are working very hard to get this fiscal framework agreed as quickly as we can. Thi...

Lord Lamont of Lerwick | 767 c577 (Link to this contribution)

I get the impression that the Minister is getting towards the end of his speech. If I heard him c...

Lord Dunlop | 767 cc577-8 (Link to this contribution)

I need to make progress, as a lot of noble Lords want to speak. I have a closing speech and will ...

Lord Hollick | 767 cc578-581 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the Economic Affairs Committee, which I chair, has over the past four months conducted ...

Lord McAvoy | 767 cc581-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the Minister for the way he introduced the Bill and for the always constructive...

Lord Reid of Cardowan | 767 c583 (Link to this contribution)

I congratulate my noble friend on his presentation. He has tiptoed through some very big thistles...

Lord McAvoy | 767 c583 (Link to this contribution)

My noble friend is as helpful as ever.

Lord McAvoy | 767 cc583-5 (Link to this contribution)

Once again, the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth of Drumlean, shouts encouragement to me. The facts of li...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 767 c585 (Link to this contribution)

I am most grateful to the noble Lord—I can tell he is reaching the end of his remarks. Could he h...

Lord McAvoy | 767 c585 (Link to this contribution)

Your Lordships’ House should be aware that I was sitting here a few minutes ago, before I started...

Lord McAvoy | 767 cc585-6 (Link to this contribution)

The answer is that we will not support anything that we know is detrimental to our nation—unlike ...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 767 cc586-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we on these Benches very much welcome the fact that we now have this Bill before us and...

Lord Reid of Cardowan | 767 c587 (Link to this contribution)

In fairness, since the noble and learned Lord said that we have to give this scrutiny, I should a...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 767 cc587-590 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I do. If I start answering that partly now, I will probably end up repeating myself. I ...

Lord Reid of Cardowan | 767 c589 (Link to this contribution)

I have a great deal of sympathy with what the noble and learned Lord says, because, on the one ha...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 767 c589 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, nothing I said takes away from what I said at the outset: that it is very desirable tha...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 767 c589 (Link to this contribution)

Does not the noble and learned Lord think that there is a great irony that the Scottish nationali...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 767 cc589-591 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am not sure what, if anything, was said in the House of Commons about the lack of the...

Lord Lamont of Lerwick | 767 c591 (Link to this contribution)

I am most grateful to the noble and learned Lord for giving way and apologise for having hesitate...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 767 cc591-2 (Link to this contribution)

I look forward with interest to what the Government have to say on the second no-detriment princi...

Lord Smith of Kelvin | 767 c592 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in the run-up to the Scottish independence referendum, the leaders of the UK’s main par...

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 767 c592 (Link to this contribution)

In relation to good faith, the noble Lord says that all the parties agreed to the agreement. I sa...

Lord Smith of Kelvin | 767 cc592-3 (Link to this contribution)

What actually happened was that he signed up to every single word in that agreement. Immediately ...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 767 c593 (Link to this contribution)

I am most grateful to the noble Lord, but before he moves on to that point, could he explain how ...

Lord Smith of Kelvin | 767 cc593-4 (Link to this contribution)

The principle is very simple. We established the principle that there should be two areas where t...

Baroness Goldie | 767 cc594-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am delighted to take part in this important debate. For me, it is reaching the destin...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 767 c595 (Link to this contribution)

My noble friend served admirably on the Smith commission. Can she explain to us how the second no...

Baroness Goldie | 767 cc595-6 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lion, my noble friend Lord Forsyth of Drumlean, may, with the passage of time, have los...

Baroness Liddell of Coatdyke | 767 c596 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am delighted to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Goldie. She and I were a double act d...

Lord Maxton | 767 c596 (Link to this contribution)

I entirely agree with what the noble Baroness has said. Will she make it quite clear that the SNP...

Baroness Liddell of Coatdyke | 767 cc596-9 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with my noble friend and will come back to that point later. The debate on the fiscal fra...

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem | 767 cc599-600 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am not entirely clear how to respond to that but I think that the good people of Pitt...

Earl of Kinnoull | 767 cc600-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, what a pleasure to follow that wonderful speech from the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of P...

Lord Lang of Monkton | 767 cc602-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is a particular pleasure to follow the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull, and to echo his tr...

Lord Lang of Monkton | 767 cc603-4 (Link to this contribution)

The double detriment point. To do so would be to the detriment of my speech.

A similar prob...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 767 c604 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord is raising an important point. Does he agree that, as we now have a system under S...

Lord Lang of Monkton | 767 cc604-5 (Link to this contribution)

The noble and learned Lord identifies precisely the kind of confusion and obfuscation which endan...

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 767 cc605-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I also congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Pittenweem, for his very statesman...

Lord Steel of Aikwood | 767 cc607-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, way back in the mists of time—I am talking about 1960 or 1961— I was president of the s...

Lord Mackay of Clashfern | 767 cc608-610 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I would like to begin by expressing my appreciation of the maiden speech by the noble L...

Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 767 cc610-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is always a great pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Mackay of Clashfern. He is...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 767 cc611-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, and I am sure we can all agree that we are a...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 767 cc613-5 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, and I am proud of that, just as the noble Baroness is proud of her origins. My mother used t...

Lord McAvoy | 767 c614 (Link to this contribution)

Before he sits down, could the noble Lord perhaps give us his understanding of “no detriment”?

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 767 cc614-6 (Link to this contribution)

God bless the man: I have an excuse to speak for another six minutes. First, all the evidence tha...

Lord Hope of Craighead | 767 cc616-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is a very real pleasure for me to follow the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth of Drumlean. H...

Lord Brennan | 767 cc617-620 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, having had the privilege of serving on a board with the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, for s...

Lord Shipley | 767 cc619-622 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it has been a pleasure to listen to this debate and to the excellence and importance of...

Earl of Stair | 767 cc621-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I broadly welcome the arrival of the Scotland Bill in this House. Although I have many ...

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 767 cc623-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, to speak for the first time in your Lordships’ House is a great honour and very humblin...

Lord Selkirk of Douglas | 767 cc624-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is a very great pleasure to congratulate my noble friend Lady McIntosh of Pickering....

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 767 c626 (Link to this contribution)

Does my noble friend really mean that he would like to see the Bill pass out of this Parliament, ...

Lord Selkirk of Douglas | 767 cc626-7 (Link to this contribution)

My noble friend misunderstands the purpose of what I was saying. It would of course be 100% bette...

Baroness Quin | 767 cc627-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, who is very often a travelling companion on ...

Lord Lyell | 767 cc629-631 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is now 44 years since I made my first humble speeches in your Lordships’ House and I...

Lord Sharkey | 767 cc630-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I can save some time by saying right away that I cannot explain the second no-detriment...

Viscount Younger of Leckie | 767 c632 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise with some trepidation to raise the subject of speeches and time guidelines, whic...

Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 767 cc632-5 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Viscount was good enough to tell me that he was about to make that announcement and tha...

Earl of Dundee | 767 cc633-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I begin by congratulating both maiden speakers on their excellent contributions. In ano...

Lord Maxton | 767 cc636-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Earl, Lord Dundee. Before he became an earl, he wa...

Lord Norton of Louth | 767 cc638-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, for the past 18 years, we have seen significant measures of constitutional change enact...

Lord Hope of Craighead | 767 c639 (Link to this contribution)

I am fascinated by what the noble Lord is saying, but the problem is that the Smith agreement was...

Lord Norton of Louth | 767 cc639-640 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with the noble and learned Lord. It puts us in a very difficult situation because there i...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 767 cc640-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Norton, and to agree with him that we h...

Lord McCluskey | 767 cc642-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I was privileged to be part of Lord Elwyn-Jones’s Front-Bench team in 1978 when this Ho...

Lord Griffiths of Fforestfach | 767 cc644-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I feel very humbled to take part in this great debate, not least after our two maiden s...

Lord Gordon of Strathblane | 767 cc646-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I welcome in particular three speeches: first are the two maiden speeches this afternoo...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 767 c647 (Link to this contribution)

Does the noble Lord think it is conceivable that it might have dawned on the SNP that in moving f...

Lord Gordon of Strathblane | 767 cc647-9 (Link to this contribution)

If the noble Lord waits until the end of my speech he will find that on this, as on so many other...

Lord Sanderson of Bowden | 767 cc649-651 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I welcome the arrival of the Bill in this House. I also welcome the arrival of my neigh...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 767 cc651-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Sanderson of Bowden, not only due to hi...

Lord Turnbull | 767 cc652-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I join others in welcoming the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh of Pickering, and the nobl...

Marquess of Lothian | 767 cc654-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the interesting speech of the noble Lord, Lord Turnbull. It ...

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 767 c655 (Link to this contribution)

It was another George, my noble friend Lord Robertson, who used that particular phrase. I am sure...

Marquess of Lothian | 767 c655 (Link to this contribution)

I think I will have to take that as being as near to an apology as I will get from the noble Lord...

Lord Reid of Cardowan | 767 c655 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Foulkes for recanting, as he should on a number of issues. ...

Marquess of Lothian | 767 cc655-7 (Link to this contribution)

I am very happy to reflect on it, but I make the point that had we not had devolution, I doubt wh...

Lord Stephen | 767 cc656-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this has been a very good debate. Although there were parts of the last speech that I d...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 767 c659 (Link to this contribution)

I understand what the noble Lord is saying about delivering the Bill but if, when he sees the fis...

Lord Stephen | 767 cc659-660 (Link to this contribution)

I very much take the view that, if that were the case, it would fracture the delicate political c...

Lord Davidson of Glen Clova | 767 cc660-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I add, if I may, to the many congratulations to the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Pitten...

Lord Reid of Cardowan | 767 c661 (Link to this contribution)

I confess that I am neither an advocate nor even a solicitor, which probably excuses my inability...

Lord Davidson of Glen Clova | 767 c664 (Link to this contribution)

One of the problems one faces as an advocate is being tempted to follow what is put before one by...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 767 c664 (Link to this contribution)

Might the noble and learned Lord turn his attention to telling us what the Opposition’s position ...

Lord Davidson of Glen Clova | 767 c664 (Link to this contribution)

The answer that I have just foreshadowed is the question of trust. We are prepared to trust Her M...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 767 c664 (Link to this contribution)

I do not know whether that is a yes or a no.

Lord Davidson of Glen Clova | 767 cc664-5 (Link to this contribution)

One sometimes finds that there are questions that do not have a yes or no answer. The question of...

Lord Davidson of Glen Clova | 767 c665 (Link to this contribution)

I suspect people are demanding even more but perhaps I might briefly rush through a few points. T...

Lord Davidson of Glen Clova | 767 cc665-6 (Link to this contribution)

Much obliged. The question of the use of devolved powers vexed a number of noble Lords—quite sens...

Lord Dunlop | 767 cc666-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this has been a lively debate, to say the least. It has been a good, informed and produ...

Lord Reid of Cardowan | 767 c670 (Link to this contribution)

Before the Minister leaves this subject, let us get to the heart of the matter. The thread that h...

Lord Dunlop | 767 c670 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord anticipated what I was going to talk about. He is always very prescient about thes...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 767 c670 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful to the Minister for picking up the question of when we will see the fiscal fra...

Lord Dunlop | 767 c671 (Link to this contribution)

To answer the noble and learned Lord’s last point, we absolutely need the Act by the time the Sco...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 767 c671 (Link to this contribution)

Forgive me but, as I mentioned in my speech, my noble friend answered a Written Question in July ...

Lord Dunlop | 767 c671 (Link to this contribution)

On my noble friend’s first point, it has been evident from the debate today that the framework is...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 767 c671 (Link to this contribution)

I would be grateful for further clarification from the Minister because he said, I think, in the ...

Lord Dunlop | 767 c672 (Link to this contribution)

That all depends on what is agreed in the fiscal framework. For example, if you look at the last ...

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 767 c672 (Link to this contribution)

I wonder if the Minister could answer the question I asked right at the start. I have waited pati...

Lord Dunlop | 767 c672 (Link to this contribution)

I am afraid that I am going to give to the noble Lord the same response that I gave earlier. We a...

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 767 c672 (Link to this contribution)

Could the Minister answer the question that I put to the noble Lord, Lord Smith? John Swinney sig...

Lord Dunlop | 767 cc672-3 (Link to this contribution)

I thought that the noble Lord, Lord Smith, answered that question very well. He put it in the con...

Lord Gordon of Strathblane | 767 c673 (Link to this contribution)

Without in any way wishing to hold up the Bill, is it not possible to increase the work rate of t...

Lord Dunlop | 767 c673 (Link to this contribution)

I assure the noble Lord that these are ministerial meetings of the Joint Exchequer Committee. In ...

Lord Purvis of Tweed | 767 c673 (Link to this contribution)

I know that the hour is late and do not want to prolong the debate, but could the Minister addres...

Lord Dunlop | 767 c673 (Link to this contribution)

The Deputy First Minister has made it clear that, for the Scottish Parliament to give its legisla...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 767 c673 (Link to this contribution)

Could the Minister explain to me—perhaps I am being a bit thick—whether he thinks that the Scotti...

Lord Dunlop | 767 cc673-4 (Link to this contribution)

As has been clear from everything I have been saying, we want to get a fiscal framework agreed so...

Lord Hollick | 767 c674 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords for their contributions to this debate. In particular, there ha...

Legislation

Scotland Bill 2015-16
Back to top