UK Parliament / Open data

Enterprise Bill [HL]

Debate on bills and Committee proceeding on Wednesday, 4 November 2015, in the House of Lords.
Lords committee stage fourth day. Clauses 24 to 31 agreed to, with clause 26 agreed to as amended. New clauses (Lords amendments 53, 53ZC, 53ZE and 53ZG) debated and withdrawn. Bill reported with amendments.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

765 cc317-380GC 

Session

2015-16

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords Grand Committee
Enterprise Bill (HL) 2015-16
Wednesday, 16 September 2015
Bills
House of Lords
Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee ninth report.
Wednesday, 21 October 2015
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
Enterprise Bill (HL) 2015-16. As amended in Grand Committee.
Wednesday, 4 November 2015
Bills
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2015-0891
Tuesday, 17 November 2015
Deposited papers
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord Haskel | 765 c317GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, if there is a Division in the Chamber, the Committee will adjourn and we will resume af...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 765 c317GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Neville-Rolfe

53: After Clause 25, insert the following new Clause—...


Show all contributions (121)
Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 765 cc317-9GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this is the Government’s only amendment tabled for Committee. It has the effect of repe...

Lord Stoneham of Droxford | 765 c319GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Stoneham of Droxford

53ZA: After Clause 25, line 3, at beginning insert...

Lord Stoneham of Droxford | 765 cc319-320GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, our first concern is that this is a blunt instrument to amend the previous legislation....

Lord Teverson | 765 cc320-2GC (Link to this contribution)

I shall also speak to our amendments and to the government amendment. I thank the Minister for ha...

Lord Cope of Berkeley | 765 c322GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I disagree with the last point the noble Lord made. If the Government wish to propose a...

Lord Mendelsohn | 765 cc322-6GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I declare an interest in that I have a corporate finance business. We have not commerci...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 765 cc325-7GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank noble Lords for this useful discussion. The noble Lord, Lord Stoneham, talked a...

Lord Mendelsohn | 765 c327GC (Link to this contribution)

I will ask the noble Baroness a quick question. She said that this would be in the interest of th...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 765 cc327-8GC (Link to this contribution)

I will come to that as I come to my final paragraph, if I may. Perhaps I could first clear up one...

Lord Teverson | 765 c328GC (Link to this contribution)

I will not interrupt the Minister regularly but should I understand it that this is a government ...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 765 c328GC (Link to this contribution)

The Government have been in discussion with the ONS but this is a serious matter involving a majo...

Lord Teverson | 765 c328GC (Link to this contribution)

Can I ask the Minister one follow-up question on that? If the Government found that it were possi...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 765 c328GC (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord makes a good point. It is clear to the Government that we cannot retain control ov...

Lord Mendelsohn | 765 c328GC (Link to this contribution)

Just to be absolutely clear: is the Minister saying that the principal, driving objective is to t...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 765 c329GC (Link to this contribution)

We want the package to look right, so “thrown under the bus” is the wrong metaphor. But we said c...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 765 c329GC (Link to this contribution)

I hesitate to cause more pain to the Minister but my noble friend Lord Mendelsohn has hit the nai...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 765 c329GC (Link to this contribution)

I think I made it clear that there are a number of options regarding the share, but I had also ma...

Lord Teverson | 765 c329GC (Link to this contribution)

That is an excellent response and I welcome it. I hope that we can find a way of showing the Mini...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 765 c329GC (Link to this contribution)

I am glad we are making progress. Green investment, which I am not an expert in, as all noble Lor...

Lord Mendelsohn | 765 c329GC (Link to this contribution)

On that point, is an absolute assurance or guarantee required? Would the Government fetter their ...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 765 c329GC (Link to this contribution)

I think I will have to answer as I have before: we cannot prejudice the bank’s status. I think th...

Lord Mendelsohn | 765 c330GC (Link to this contribution)

I am trying to hone this down to one particular point. The Minister has said that these are expec...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 765 c330GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am in some difficulty because we are still designing the sale process. I know that th...

Lord Stoneham of Droxford | 765 c330GC (Link to this contribution)

Can I just clarify one thing? I accept that the Minister says that she will withdraw her amendmen...

Lord Teverson | 765 c331GC (Link to this contribution)

I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Cope; he was absolutely right that this debate should have come...

Lord Mendelsohn | 765 c331GC (Link to this contribution)

From this side, we thank the Minister for her approach to this. We want to be clear that we belie...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 765 c331GC (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to noble Lords for their courtesy. It is a bit like going to the gym, this afternoo...

Lord Whitty | 765 c331GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Whitty

53ZC: After Clause 25, insert the following new Clause—

“R...

Lord Whitty | 765 cc331-5GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we are about to move not to the gym but to the pub. After my previous exertions on this...

Lord Snape | 765 cc335-6GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support these amendments so ably moved by my noble friend. Like him, I hesitate to lo...

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 765 cc336-8GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, those of us who sat through the long reaches of the night on the Small Business, Enterp...

Lord Snape | 765 c338GC (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps I may tell the noble Lord that I am not a member of CAMRA and that I do not even like rea...

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 765 cc338-9GC (Link to this contribution)

I am afraid that I have to disagree with the noble Lord. I am explaining why the background to th...

Lord Mendelsohn | 765 c339GC (Link to this contribution)

Given this rather large view of returns on the market, I have a quick question. If there were not...

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 765 cc339-340GC (Link to this contribution)

Certainly. The noble Lord is a businessman to his bootstraps. He knows perfectly well that if you...

Lord Berkeley | 765 c340GC (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord said he wanted to have good pubs and that he was worried about uncertainty in the ...

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 765 c340GC (Link to this contribution)

Of course I understand the pressure on tenants. But the noble Lord must agree that the pressure o...

Lord Snape | 765 c340GC (Link to this contribution)

Does the noble Lord realise that he has just made a very effective case for the argument we are p...

Lord Stoneham of Droxford | 765 c340GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the arguments have been very well put by the noble Lord, Lord Whitty. I support them an...

Lord Mendelsohn | 765 cc341-3GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we first intended to introduce these amendments as an expression of our happiness at th...

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 765 c343GC (Link to this contribution)

Before the noble Lord concludes, can he explain why we are going back over the managed pub issue?...

Lord Mendelsohn | 765 c343GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, for that intervention. I shall make it very clear. We intro...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 765 cc343-4GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank noble Lords for triggering this debate with their amendments and for taking us ...

Lord Mendelsohn | 765 c344GC (Link to this contribution)

Does the noble Baroness mean that her right honourable friend met people prior to the publication...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 765 cc344-6GC (Link to this contribution)

My understanding is that she met with the pubs after the consultation, as, in turn, she will be m...

Lord Snape | 765 c346GC (Link to this contribution)

Was that figure not available on 28 January when the noble Baroness made that pledge? She said th...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 765 c346GC (Link to this contribution)

I am sure that we had some measure of the costs available at the time. I am not trying to dispute...

Lord Mendelsohn | 765 c346GC (Link to this contribution)

I am probably unnecessarily confused here. Is the Minister saying that the burden on business was...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 765 c346GC (Link to this contribution)

It is £600,000 for having the PRA in addition. I am sorry if I gave the figure incorrectly. I fel...

Lord Snape | 765 c346GC (Link to this contribution)

In the context of government expenditure, we are grateful for that but it does not really amount ...

Lord Mendelsohn | 765 c346GC (Link to this contribution)

What assessment has that figure taken into account? As I read a statement from a company’s report...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 765 cc346-7GC (Link to this contribution)

This is a figure for the burden on business, so to that extent there is a parallel. Perhaps we ca...

Lord Snape | 765 c347GC (Link to this contribution)

Before the Minister leaves that point, how was it possible without PRA for a tenant to demonstrat...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 765 c347GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am sure we will come back to this. I will take that point away and go through it agai...

Lord Mendelsohn | 765 c348GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the idea that this is a good thing for small business and that a burden of £600,000 sta...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 765 c348GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am not sure that there has been a complete understanding of what we are proposing. Th...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 765 c348GC (Link to this contribution)

Is it not ironic that in working together with the previous Government to achieve a package that ...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 765 c348GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I think that we have been through the arguments. I understand the disappointment. Noble...

Lord Berkeley | 765 c349GC (Link to this contribution)

The noble Baroness has talked an awful lot about the consultation that has gone on this summer wi...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 765 c349GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my understanding is that PRA was not discussed but I will engage further in the process...

Lord Whitty | 765 cc349-350GC (Link to this contribution)

The noble Baroness played an effective defensive game on a very sticky wicket with a fair amount ...

Lord Snape | 765 c350GC (Link to this contribution)

Is the position not even worse? How is a tenant able to request a rent review under MRO without a...

Lord Whitty | 765 c350GC (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps I can answer for the Minister.

Lord Whitty | 765 c350GC (Link to this contribution)

As I understand it, some of the triggers that were outlined by the Minister at the previous stage...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 765 c350GC (Link to this contribution)

I demurred from reading out the triggers because I did not want to labour the Committee with too ...

Lord Snape | 765 c350GC (Link to this contribution)

I am as anxious as ever to help the Minister out but I put the same question to her as I did to m...

Lord Snape | 765 c350GC (Link to this contribution)

Or if the price of beer goes up.

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 765 c350GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, given the disappointment and concerns expressed and the lack of complete clarity as a r...

Lord Whitty | 765 c351GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for that. It would be useful if some of what she said was conveyed to us in ...

Lord Mendelsohn | 765 c351GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Mendelsohn

53ZE: After Clause 25, insert the following new Clause—

<...
Lord Mendelsohn | 765 cc351-3GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am pretty sure this will be significantly briefer. This is largely a measure to highl...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 765 cc352-4GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this amendment is designed to protect small businesses from cyberattacks. I was really ...

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 765 c354GC (Link to this contribution)

As my noble friend is talking about the broad range of plans that the Government have, could they...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 765 cc354-5GC (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my noble friend, and I shall certainly make sure that people are aware of the po...

Lord Mendelsohn | 765 c355GC (Link to this contribution)

I want to make the following staccato points. First, we spend £856 million. Unfortunately, that i...

Lord Mendelsohn | 765 cc355-6GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Mendelsohn

53ZG: After Clause 25, insert the following new Clause—

<...
Lord Mendelsohn | 765 c356GC (Link to this contribution)

I am going to go for the record for the briefest-ever introduction of an amendment. This amendmen...

Lord Stoneham of Droxford | 765 c356GC (Link to this contribution)

I do not want to delay the Committee. I think the Minister knows of my ongoing interest in the su...

Lord Deben | 765 c357GC (Link to this contribution)

Could the Minister help me on this too? I have had exactly the same experience. I think that peop...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 765 cc357-8GC (Link to this contribution)

I very much agree with noble Lords that it is important for consumers and businesses to have tran...

Lord Mendelsohn | 765 c358GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for her comments. The one thing that comes across very strongly in this Comm...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 765 c359GC (Link to this contribution)

I am delighted to say that our efforts continue. We are trying to make sure that, as it were, rea...

Lord Mendelsohn | 765 c359GC (Link to this contribution)

I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 765 c359GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town

53ZH: Clause 26, page 44, leave out lines 7 ...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 765 cc359-361GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendment 53ZH is in my name and that of my noble friend, Lord Stevenson. I will also s...

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall | 765 c361GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I inform the Committee that if this amendment is agreed to I cannot call Amendments 53Z...

Baroness Donaghy | 765 cc361-3GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Clause 26 sits rather oddly in a Bill about enterprise, a bit like a carbuncle on the e...

Lord Stoneham of Droxford | 765 cc363-5GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as housing associations have been designated as part of the public sector, I ought to d...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 765 cc365-7GC (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to noble Lords for their comments. At the outset, I shall address the point that th...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 765 cc367-8GC (Link to this contribution)

I am desperately trying not to use the word “shameful”, but I am afraid that that is what I think...

Lord Borwick | 765 c368GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Borwick

53ZJ: Clause 26, page 44, line 8, leave out from “of” to “does”...

Lord Borwick | 765 c368GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this amendment does not try to amend the purpose of Clause 26; rather, it would change ...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 765 c368GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank my noble friend Lord Borwick for his support for the cap and for his interest in helping ...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 765 c368GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town

54: Clause 26, page 44, line 9, at end inser...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 765 cc368-9GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I apologise on behalf of my noble friend Lord Wills for his absence, which was complete...

Lord Low of Dalston | 765 c369GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I put my name to these amendments and I am very happy to support them, but I confess th...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 765 cc369-370GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank noble Lords, including in his absence the noble Lord, Lord Wills, for tabling this amendm...

Lord Low of Dalston | 765 c370GC (Link to this contribution)

It is not in dispute that the awards which may be made at tribunals will not be capped. The conce...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 765 c370GC (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Low, for raising that point. It is important that I check t...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 765 c370GC (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord, Lord Low, calls himself underpowered and then he understands every jot and tittle...

Baroness Donaghy | 765 c370GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Donaghy

54B: Clause 26, page 44, line 9, at end insert “except wher...

Baroness Donaghy | 765 cc371-2GC (Link to this contribution)

In order to save time I will speak to the next group of amendments, if that is all right. There i...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 765 cc372-3GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the amendments in this group are pretty crucial. In part, they take forward what we sai...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 765 cc373-4GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this group seeks to delay the implementation of the cap, create exemptions or introduce...

Baroness Donaghy | 765 c374GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for dealing with all those amendments so quickly. First, I think that the fl...

Lord Borwick | 765 c375GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Borwick

54BC: Clause 26, page 44, line 9, at end insert—

“(1A) Wh...

Baroness Donaghy | 765 c375GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Donaghy

54C: Clause 26, page 44, leave out lines 22 to 24

Baroness Donaghy | 765 cc375-6GC (Link to this contribution)

This will take three minutes. At least I hope I can be as quick as that. Not because this amendme...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 765 cc376-7GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this is the amendment that the Government really ought to grab hold of if they want to ...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 765 cc377-8GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble Baroness for her amendment. It is late but I will try to respond because the no...

Baroness Donaghy | 765 c378GC (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for her response, but she has not convinced me by one iota. However, in view...

Lord Borwick | 765 c378GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Borwick

54CA: Clause 26, page 44, line 33, leave out “(1)” and insert “...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 765 c378GC (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town

54J: Clause 26, page 46, leave out lines 12 ...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 765 c378GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this group of amendments has been spoken to in part by my noble friend Lady Donaghy. I ...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 765 c378GC (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we have received the committee’s report, and I take this opportunity to thank the commi...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 765 c379GC (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry if this has not been done in quite the right order, but in view of what the Minister h...

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