My Lords, I am very grateful to all who participated in that excellent exchange. I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Tope, for his support. He reminded me in passing that I did not mention the good work of Habinteg Housing Association, which has been working on these things very successfully over the years.
The noble and gallant Lord, Lord Stirrup, raised the fundamental point, and underlined it, which is that to allow local authorities to insist on this higher level but absolutely universal higher standard of lifetime homes across the piece requires this rigorous test to be fulfilled, which brings with it potentially more red tape. This is the essence of the problem—passing a test of viability and need, while of course acknowledging that around the country circumstances are different. But we all get older, all around the country. There are families everywhere with a mother in a buggy going up those steps. The essence of the lifetime homes philosophy is that we need to build all our new homes to a standard that is good for everyone for their lifetime, and it is very hard to see what the rigorous test is going to be that one area might merit being able to insist on those standards and another are might not. The noble and gallant Lord, Lord Stirrup, gets to the essence of that problem. I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Andrews, who emphasised concerns about older people and points out that this is going to be a bit of a postcode lottery as to whether the optional higher level is plumped for by the local authority concerned and whether it is able to sustain that if people go to appeal.
The noble Lord, Lord Lexden, raised the question about there are quite a lot of homes specifically adapted for wheelchair use. It is just that sometimes the people who need them are not living there but somewhere else. Of course, that creates the problem of how you get people to swap homes so that everybody is in the right place, but that point relates specifically to wheelchair-user homes rather than the broader standards that would apply, it is hoped eventually, to everybody—the universal move to level 2.
The noble Lord, Lord Rooker, raised the question of the local plan. There is a potential hiccup there that we have not got to the bottom of. If there is one thing that we are going to have to talk more about in the consultation period, it will be how we fit this within local plans without that leading to endless delay. It was important that the Minister made clear that we will be able to be passported, if we are a local authority that currently requires higher standards; that will carry on uninterrupted into the future.
I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, for his support. I hope that he will be part of further consultation as we move towards the guidance, not regulations, that will put these standards into effect. The Minister’s remarks were reassuring but still have some rather vague edges to them. There are opportunities and wriggle room for developers to say that it is not possible to go to these higher standards in this area because, perhaps, we have paid too much for the land and the cost of £500 or so involved would mean that we will not make the profits we would have made. If such excuses are tolerated, we will lose the battle.
We need to be firm on these matters and I hope that the guidance will be firm when it comes out. There is some reassurance—for which, thanks—but there is more work to be done. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.