My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lord Hodgson for bringing this amendment forward because it is clear in my mind
that your Lordships’ House needs to have a debate on this subject, not just in the APPG but elsewhere. What I am not so happy with is the amendment to Clause 5. The real problem seems to be that we do not debate defence Bills very often in your Lordships’ House and there are very few places one can table an amendment such as this and the other amendment in this group. I therefore appreciate why it is here. However, the noble Baroness, Lady Stern, said drones are treated as aircraft. Clause 5, which relates to the jurisdiction of the Ministry of Defence Police, refers to aircraft and hovercraft, so if a drone is an aircraft, it is in. At the moment, it is not, so perhaps we need some clarification on that, because definitions are important.
A good point was made about unmanned aerial systems, because it is almost giving them a respectable name. The public know the name “drones”, and we now seem to have tried to find a longer, more convoluted phrase. I think a spade should be called a spade. If it is a drone, it is drone. I wonder whether there is a problem.
The real problem as far as the public and the noble Lord, Lord Judd, are concerned is the collateral damage when drones are used. Oversight is essential, but the worry in international legislation at the moment is that if someone in Texas, or maybe Nevada, is operating them, will they be harassed if an error happens? I suppose errors should not happen. President Obama announced changes in the drone programme in May 2013, which has been welcome because it has reduced the number of deaths caused by drone strikes.
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The other point that has not yet been made is about the other uses of drones, because this is a defence Bill. However, Amazon has been considering using drones to deliver parcels. It is at an experimental phase but I imagine that it will continue. The real point is that I am greatly worried about drones used as armed weapons. The fact that there is no pilot in the plane makes it more dangerous in many ways. I am not so worried—in fact, it can be safer to the Armed Forces and civilians—if drones are used to gather information on battlefields or the like. I welcome this discussion, although I do not think that the amendment has a place in the Bill. However, there is an argument for having a debate and a Bill on this and other matters separately to this Bill, which is mainly about procurement and the reserves.