My Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Baroness for moving this amendment and for doing so so movingly. I am also grateful to the Minister for meeting with me last week to discuss this issue and, in particular, I am grateful to those who have been part of the campaign, led by Lucy Herd, for their support and for carrying on offering heartbreaking personal stories to illustrate the need for this measure.
Just today, Lucy received an e-mail that said:
“My only son died last Tuesday (7th Jan) and my company policy states that I only receive two days in compassionate leave, the rest has to come out of my annual leave allowance. I think it should be law for people who have lost an immediate family member to have as much time off as they need”.
Lucy also told me of Rhian, who had been in touch through Twitter. About a year after Lucy’s son Jack died, Rhian’s 18 month-old, George, choked on the food that his dad was feeding him at home. Sadly George died. His father was distraught but was given only two days’ compassionate leave by his employer. He committed suicide seven days later. Rhian has now lost her son and her husband. That is a particularly tragic story, but it is worth noting that 90% of parents who lose a child also suffer relationship breakdown. Many parents lose a partner as well as a child.
These stories and many more like them show there is a problem. I read out different examples in Committee, showing that the NHS can be a remarkably uncompassionate employer at times. Those at the top of these big organisations will be appalled at how their rules can sometimes be applied. I heard today of a middle-ranking employee of one of our big high street banks who rang his boss the evening that his wife died following an illness. His boss was very sorry but there was a vitally important meeting the next day and could he please make sure he was in by 6.30 am.
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In this regard, the Minister’s offer of guidance would be helpful. Many large employers are applying previous guidance that advised giving up to three days for compassionate leave. If ACAS can involve people such as Lucy and organisations such as the CBI in drawing up the guidance, I am sure it will have an
impact with those employers who want to do the right thing but need advice on what that is—the vast majority of employers.
Can the noble Viscount assure me that guidance will suggest flexibility about taking a minimal amount of leave of, say, the two weeks that I propose? Can he also give me an assurance about what he will do to ensure that public sector employers follow the guidance? Will he write to other departments and ask them to ensure that they and those they influence, such as agencies, councils, schools and hospitals, also follow the guidance?
I worry about a small minority of employers who will not follow guidance. There are rogue employers and rogue managers who are either so pressured that they have lost their compassion or never had it in the first place. They also need to comply with any guidance. That is why I want the Minister to agree to take these powers to consult and come back with regulations to ensure that we can all have reasonable time off after the death of a child as a right.
Your Lordships may ask: why would the Government not want to take those powers? Would it be unpopular? As I said in Committee, there is public support. An opinion poll in the autumn found that, when asked whether there should be a national guaranteed minimum entitlement to bereavement leave for a close family member, 70.8% agreed. “Ah, but would it not be an unpopular burden on business?”, you may ask. Yesterday, I met the CBI to discuss this narrow measure about bereavement leave for parents. It was a positive meeting. Although the CBI is concerned to get the scope and structure right, it is happy to engage in that debate on the back of the amendment and can see the in-principle case to do so. It does not oppose it in principle. So business would not complain if the Minister accepted the amendment and then consulted on what form the secondary legislation should take.
Finally, I must raise one other issue that I would be grateful if the Minister would raise with his DWP colleagues. I have talked about time off work following a bereavement, but not everyone who suffers the loss of a child is in work. Will the Minister please also consider those on benefits? Can he ensure that in that circumstance there is compassionate leave from the conditionality attached to benefit, where you have to be actively looking for work?
Lucy also said to me today that when Jack died, there was a period when his bedroom was really important as a part of grieving—to have his place, his things, his smell. Both of us have been asked to get a reassurance that housing benefit will not be cut in those circumstances because of the application of the bedroom tax.
To conclude, this is our case. No one speaks against it, and there is public support, no business opposition and an overwhelming moral, compassionate case. People get 12 months or more following a birth, three days following a death. That cannot be right, and I plead with the Minister at this late hour to put his prepared notes to one side and take the time between now and Third Reading to talk to the CBI and others to see whether taking those powers to regulate in future on top of guidance is now the right thing to do.