UK Parliament / Open data

Transparency of Lobbying, Non-Party Campaigning and Trade Union Administration Bill

Lords report stage first day.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

751 cc11-93 

Session

2013-14

Department

Cabinet Office

Legislative stage

Report stage

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Proceeding contributions

Lord Hardie | 751 c11 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Hardie

1: Clause 1, page 1, line 5, leave out “carry on the business of...

Lord Hardie | 751 cc12-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this amendment seeks to extend the legislation requirements introduced by Clause 1 to a...


Show all contributions (122)
Lord Norton of Louth | 751 c13 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak briefly, simply because my Amendment 136 is grouped with the other two in ...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 751 c13 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I want to speak for less than a minute; I spoke at some length on this matter in Commit...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 751 cc13-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I also support Amendments 1 and 11. I hope that I will not also have to support the ame...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 cc15-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the amendment moved by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hardie, and supported by the op...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 751 c16 (Link to this contribution)

We have said throughout that the definition used by the professional organisations—which would ab...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 c16 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is fair enough to say that, but it is not what the House is being asked to vote on t...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 751 c16 (Link to this contribution)

If the professionals have designed a system which includes them, why can that not be in the conse...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 cc16-7 (Link to this contribution)

Because, my Lords, there have as I understand it been many attempts made to pin down and define w...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 751 c17 (Link to this contribution)

There are two issues. The first is that there are some enormously large employers and we do not k...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 c17 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we shall come on to the second point made by the noble Baroness. I think it is the subj...

Lord Norton of Louth | 751 c17 (Link to this contribution)

Just on the example the noble and learned Lord was giving of the Scotch Whisky Association, if it...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 cc18-9 (Link to this contribution)

If the Scotch Whisky Association was lobbying itself, then the important thing is that if the Sco...

Lord Tyler | 751 c19 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister will recall that at every previous stage of the Bill I have pressed that the Governm...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 cc19-20 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful to my noble friend and I recognise his long-standing interest in this, not jus...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 751 c20 (Link to this contribution)

If I put a scenario to the Minister, perhaps he will be able to give me the answer. If an in-hous...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 c21 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, if a lobbyist meets a Minister or the Permanent Secretary, there will be a scheme of pu...

Baroness Neville-Rolfe | 751 c21 (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps I may ask my noble and learned friend for further clarification about meetings. When I wa...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 c21 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my noble friend for asking that question. I have not said that we will publish t...

Lord Hardie | 751 cc21-2 (Link to this contribution)

Can the Minister help me in the following regard? He relies upon the fact that a system of record...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 c22 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I hear the point that the noble and learned Lord is making. As I think my noble friend ...

Lord Hardie | 751 c22 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to noble Lords for their contributions to this short debate and to those who have s...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 c22 (Link to this contribution)

The noble and learned Lord asks a fair question. The answer is that that is not the scheme that t...

Lord Hardie | 751 c23 (Link to this contribution)

I take the noble and learned Lord’s point but it is not an alternative: it is not either disclosu...

Lord Hardie | 751 c23 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Hardie

2: Clause 2, page 2, line 6, leave out “or permanent secretary” ...

Lord Hardie | 751 cc23-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this amendment reflects a similar amendment to that which was debated in Committee, alo...

Lord Tyler | 751 cc27-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendment 3, in my name and that of my noble friend, is grouped with the amendment just...

Lord Norton of Louth | 751 cc29-30 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, briefly I support the comments of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hardie, and those of...

Baroness Williams of Crosby | 751 cc30-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I strongly support my noble friend’s amendment and that put forward so effectively by t...

Lord Woolf | 751 c32 (Link to this contribution)

Could I ask for the noble Baroness’s assistance from her great experience on whether she sees any...

Baroness Williams of Crosby | 751 c32 (Link to this contribution)

My impression is that there is not any real difference between the two. It is possible that some ...

Lord Aberdare | 751 cc32-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I, too, support the amendment put forward by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hardie. I...

Lord Bichard | 751 c33 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as a former Permanent Secretary, I rise still bathing in the warmth of the comments fro...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 751 cc33-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I spoke in Committee on this matter, so I shall be brief today. My concern is that spec...

Lord Turnbull | 751 c34 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this is the first time I have got involved in this Bill.

The current structure is...

Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 751 cc34-6 (Link to this contribution)

I rise to speak to Amendment 2 in the name of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hardie, my noble f...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 cc36-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hardie, has moved an amendment that would extend the s...

Baroness Williams of Crosby | 751 c37 (Link to this contribution)

On that point, I raise the question of whether the three most senior classes of the Civil Service...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 c38 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I accept that it would be more proportionate, but I really am not in a position to say....

Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 751 c38 (Link to this contribution)

I should like to raise two issues. First, nobody is suggesting that all meetings with all civil s...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 c38 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the noble Baroness says that they are not asking to include all civil servants’ meeting...

Lord Hardie | 751 cc38-9 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the noble and learned Lord. The point that I am seeking to make in this amendmen...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 c39 (Link to this contribution)

I think I understand the point that the noble and learned Lord is making about the requirement to...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 751 c39 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister has not responded to the very narrow point that was made by my noble friend Lady Roy...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 c39 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, until I became Deputy Leader of your Lordships’ House I did not have a special adviser....

Lord Tyler | 751 c39 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my noble and learned friend, who is very good to take points from us all. I symp...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 c40 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I know that my noble friend knows me well enough and I hope that I have made enough app...

Lord Norton of Louth | 751 c40 (Link to this contribution)

Can my noble and learned friend clarify what he has said? If a consultant lobbyist lobbies a Mini...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 c40 (Link to this contribution)

On the second point, I was responding to the amendment as it is tabled, which does not narrow it ...

Lord Hardie | 751 c40 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to noble Lords on all sides of the House for their support for the amendment. I rea...

Lord Tyler | 751 c44 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Tyler

3: Clause 2, page 2, line 7, after “secretary” insert “or special...

Lord Tyler | 751 c44 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, and to test the opinion of the House.

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 c47 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Wallace of Tankerness

4: Clause 2, page 2, line 18, leave out “the Mini...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 cc47-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the amendments in this group are a number of technical amendments in the name of my nob...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 c49 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Wallace of Tankerness

5: Clause 2, page 2, line 19, leave out “the comm...

Lord Hardie | 751 c49 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Hardie

7: Schedule 1, page 53, line 1, leave out paragraph 3

Lord Hardie | 751 cc49-50 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in moving this amendment, I declare an interest. As I explained in Committee, I am a me...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 cc50-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hardie, has moved an amendment which would delete para...

Lord Hardie | 751 c51 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the noble and learned Lord for putting those remarks on the record and, in the c...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 c51 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Wallace of Tankerness

8: Schedule 1, page 53, line 16, at end insert—

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 c51 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Wallace of Tankerness

10: Schedule 2, page 55, line 1, leave out from “...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 cc51-2 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Wallace of Tankerness

12: Clause 4, page 3, line 12, at end insert—

...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 c52 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in moving the amendment standing in the name of my noble friend Lord Wallace of Saltair...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 751 c52 (Link to this contribution)

What are the circumstances in which a lobbying firm would not wish to sign up to the code of cond...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 cc52-3 (Link to this contribution)

I am not sure that this should be addressed to me as opposed to the lobbying firms, since it is s...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 751 c53 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town

13: Clause 4, line 2, leave out “of whether”...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 751 c53 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendment 13 stands in my name and that of my noble friend Lady Royall. I shall also sp...

Lord Tyler | 751 cc53-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in Committee I moved an amendment to deal with the linkage between the registration pro...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 751 c54 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, as I understand the present arrangement—and I am only going by memory from what was sai...

Lord Hardie | 751 c54 (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps I can answer the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours. In the debate about the first amendme...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 cc54-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I appreciate the welcome given to the government amendments by the noble Baroness, Lady...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 751 c55 (Link to this contribution)

Would Ministers be happy to meet a lobbying company that did not subscribe to the ethical standar...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 cc55-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I do not think the noble Lord can reasonably expect a blanket application. There may be...

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 751 c56 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, for what I think is his support for the approach we...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 cc56-7 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Wallace of Tankerness

15: Clause 4, page 3, line 29, at beginning inser...

Lord Hardie | 751 c57 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Hardie

17: Clause 6, page 4, line 27, at end insert—

“(6A) A regi...

Lord Hardie | 751 cc57-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this amendment seeks to give a right of appeal to someone whom the registrar has remove...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 cc58-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the noble and learned Lord for his amendment. It might be helpful if in respons...

Lord Hardie | 751 c59 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the noble and learned Lord for that explanation. I simply comment in passing that if it g...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 c59 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Wallace of Tankerness

18: Clause 9, page 5, line 24, leave out subsecti...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 c59 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Wallace of Tankerness

19: Clause 12, page 6, line 25, leave out paragra...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 c59 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Wallace of Tankerness

20: Clause 16, page 8, line 37, leave out subsect...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 c59 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Wallace of Tankerness

21: Clause 20, page 9, line 41, leave out “of not...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 c60 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Wallace of Tankerness

22: Clause 21, page 10, line 21, leave out subsec...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 c60 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Wallace of Tankerness

24: Clause 22, page 10, line 34, at end insert “(...

Lord Norton of Louth | 751 c60 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Norton of Louth

26: After Clause 23, insert the following new Clause—

Lord Norton of Louth | 751 cc60-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my amendment gets, I think, to the heart of Part 1 of the Bill. The purported purpose o...

Lord Aberdare | 751 c62 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the amendment proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Norton, seems to me an elegant and effic...

Lord Campbell-Savours | 751 c62 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, about five or six years ago, I sat on a pre-legislative scrutiny committee dealing with...

Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 751 c63 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have little to add. Like my noble friend, I deeply regret that this Bill was not subj...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 cc63-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lord Norton for moving his new clause, which would require the ...

Lord Hardie | 751 c64 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I seek a point of clarification. In light of the decision of the House to accept the am...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 c64 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I stand by what I said when I replied to the question asked by my noble friend Lord Tyl...

Lord Norton of Louth | 751 c64 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I agree with my noble and learned friend in that I certainly welcome what he announced ...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 751 cc65-8 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Wallace of Tankerness

27: Clause 24, page 11, line 27, leave out subsec...

Lord Monks | 751 c68 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Monks

28A: Clause 37, page 40, line 9, at end insert—

“(c) to hav...

Lord Monks | 751 cc68-70 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I shall speak also to Amendments 28B, 28C, 28D and 31A, standing in my name and that of...

Lord Morris of Handsworth | 751 cc70-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support this group of amendments in the name of my noble friend Lord Monks. My reason...

Lord Lea of Crondall | 751 c71 (Link to this contribution)

The whole philosophy of Part 3 seems quite astonishingly inequitable between what you might call ...

Lord Cormack | 751 c71 (Link to this contribution)

I had not intended to say anything but I have listened with care and sympathy to what has been sa...

Lord Martin of Springburn | 751 cc71-2 (Link to this contribution)

I support the noble Lord, Lord Monks, and others who have spoken regarding these amendments. At o...

Baroness Williams of Crosby | 751 c72 (Link to this contribution)

I very strongly support the amendments tabled by the noble Lords, Lord Monks and Lord Stevenson o...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 751 cc72-3 (Link to this contribution)

I declare an interest as a retired member of a large union. As the noble Baroness has just said, ...

Viscount Younger of Leckie | 751 cc73-6 (Link to this contribution)

Before I address the amendments I would like to say a few words about blacklisting, which was rai...

Lord Monks | 751 cc74-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. I admired his straight bat, which could have been ...

Lord Whitty | 751 c80 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Whitty

29: Clause 37, leave out Clause 37

Lord Whitty | 751 cc80-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendment 29 would deal with the problem that was alluded to in the previous debate. A ...

Lord Lea of Crondall | 751 c82 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I think the word that my noble friend Lord Whitty could not quite conjure up, because i...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 751 cc82-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is interesting that the questions we are left with keep coming back and keep being u...

Viscount Younger of Leckie | 751 c83 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I turn to two amendments which seek to drastically reduce the effect and extent of the ...

Lord Lea of Crondall | 751 c83 (Link to this contribution)

I am most grateful to the Minister for giving way. This must be about the fourth time that he has...

Viscount Younger of Leckie | 751 cc84-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the reasoning behind this is simply to look at the bigger picture in relation to unions...

Lord Monks | 751 c86 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. I just wonder how the assurer can help a union in a...

Viscount Younger of Leckie | 751 cc86-7 (Link to this contribution)

It is certainly not to confuse, my Lords. As I explained, the role of the assurer is to provide t...

Lord Whitty | 751 cc87-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that lengthy reply, in which he repeatedly referred to the Gov...

Lord Monks | 751 c88 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Monks

33A: After Clause 39, insert the following new Clause—

“Par...

Lord Monks | 751 cc88-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendment 33A concerns the commencement of Part 3. We have already debated the purposes...

Lord Balfe | 751 cc89-90 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, first, let me first apologise for not taking part in the earlier stages of the Bill. As...

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 751 cc90-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have never in my long life met a Conservative member of a trade union. It is very nic...

Viscount Younger of Leckie | 751 cc91-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendment 33A could delay commencement of the provisions in Part 3, as they would not c...

Lord Monks | 751 c93 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it was a pleasure to hear the noble Lord, Lord Balfe. I welcome him to this House. It w...

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