UK Parliament / Open data

Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill

Debate on bills on Wednesday, 8 January 2014, in the House of Lords.
Lords report stage (day one, part one). Clause 1. Amendment 1 agreed to on division (306 to 178). Other amendments agreed to. Clauses 8-9, 12-13, 17-18 and Schedule 2, amendments agreed to.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

750 cc1512-1571 

Session

2013-14

Department

Home Office

Legislative stage

Report stage

Procedure

Government defeats

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber
Anti-Social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill 2013-14. As amended in Lords Committee.
Wednesday, 11 December 2013
Bills
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2014-0101
Thursday, 23 January 2014
Deposited papers
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord Dear | 750 cc1512-3 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Dear

1: Clause 1, page 1, line 8, leave out from “in” to end of line 9 ...

Lord Dear | 750 cc1513-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in moving Amendment 1, I want to be absolutely clear on one thing: anti-social behaviou...


Show all contributions (106)
Baroness D'Souza | 750 c1516 (Link to this contribution)

I should perhaps remind your Lordships that if this amendment is agreed to, I cannot call Amendme...

Baroness Mallalieu | 750 cc1516-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my name has been added to this amendment. The noble Lord, Lord Dear, moved it with his ...

Lord Mackay of Clashfern | 750 cc1518-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support this amendment; I have signed it and I believe that it is amply justified. As...

Lord Morris of Aberavon | 750 cc1519-1521 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have added my name to the amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Dear. Like him, fo...

Lord Faulks | 750 cc1521-2 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I fear that I am about to break the consensus. I hope that in doing so I do not cause t...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 750 c1522 (Link to this contribution)

I am following my noble friend’s argument closely, but could he give an example of the kind of th...

Lord Faulks | 750 c1522 (Link to this contribution)

It would provide a remedy for myriad different circumstances—perhaps the sort of behaviour where ...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 750 c1522 (Link to this contribution)

Surely that would be covered by the present law.

Lord Faulks | 750 c1523 (Link to this contribution)

It might be, but the problem is that the test for harassment is fraught with imprecision, as is a...

Lord Cormack | 750 c1523 (Link to this contribution)

So what is the objection to having harassment in the Bill?

Lord Faulks | 750 c1523 (Link to this contribution)

The objection is that there is a risk that the hurdle will be too high and that the judge will sa...

Lord Faulks | 750 c1523 (Link to this contribution)

The greater test will always include the lesser, but areas that may or may not be considered by a...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 750 c1523 (Link to this contribution)

Could my noble friend deal with a major objection? An order can be obtained on hearsay evidence, ...

Lord Faulks | 750 c1523 (Link to this contribution)

The question of hearsay evidence is important, and I am glad that my noble friend raised it. One ...

Lord Thomas of Gresford | 750 c1523 (Link to this contribution)

Is my noble friend saying that the procedure can be based on an anonymous complaint?

Lord Faulks | 750 cc1523-4 (Link to this contribution)

It can be on the basis of an anonymous complaint, though a judge will need to be satisfied of its...

Lord Greaves | 750 c1524 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am anxious to support the Government on Clause 1, because there is a great deal to be...

Lord Faulks | 750 cc1524-5 (Link to this contribution)

It is a marginally lower hurdle, but as I understand it—and the Minister will confirm—the choice ...

Lord Elton | 750 c1525 (Link to this contribution)

Will my noble friend forgive me? He has just said that he cannot understand why there should be a...

Lord Faulks | 750 c1525 (Link to this contribution)

Of course I entirely accept the noble Lord’s point that those in social housing may not have opti...

Lord Cormack | 750 c1525 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we have just heard an interesting speech from my noble friend Lord Faulks. I am sure th...

Lord Faulks | 750 c1525 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my noble friend for his kind congratulations, but I should say that I spoke on t...

Lord Cormack | 750 cc1525-7 (Link to this contribution)

One is tempted to call that “cause and effect”, but I will not.

This noble House concluded ...

Lord Blair of Boughton | 750 c1527 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I should like to take further what the noble Baroness, Lady Mallalieu, said about who i...

Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 750 c1527 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, a point that has not been made sufficiently—I think that the noble Lord, Lord Dear, ref...

Lord Walton of Detchant | 750 c1528 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I rise briefly to give warm support to this amendment tabled and so ably presented by m...

Baroness Hamwee | 750 cc1528-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in response to that I can say that frequently and over decades I have been annoyed and ...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 750 c1529 (Link to this contribution)

I apologise for interrupting my noble friend and am grateful to her. May I ask her the same quest...

Baroness Hamwee | 750 c1529 (Link to this contribution)

My noble friend is asking for examples of behaviour. It could be kids kicking a football around o...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 750 c1529 (Link to this contribution)

Is my noble friend suggesting that all these examples should be capable of being stopped by the c...

Baroness Hamwee | 750 c1529 (Link to this contribution)

Of course, if people feel threatened and their lives are badly impinged upon. That is what the Go...

Baroness O'Loan | 750 c1530 (Link to this contribution)

Can the noble Baroness explain precisely how judges are supposed to interpret a threat and a feel...

Baroness Hamwee | 750 c1530 (Link to this contribution)

I would say because of the context of the Bill, the clear policy underlying it and the evidence t...

Lord Morris of Aberavon | 750 c1530 (Link to this contribution)

When the noble Baroness uses the word “frightened” is she not arguing the case for maintaining th...

Baroness Hamwee | 750 c1530 (Link to this contribution)

Of course, these things are all subjective to some extent and perhaps that was an inappropriate w...

Lord Howarth of Newport | 750 cc1530-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Faulks, was right in this, at least in drawing attention to the sc...

Lord Mawhinney | 750 cc1531-3 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support this amendment. The arguments for it have been set out so clearly and persuas...

Lord Carswell | 750 c1533 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, noble Lords who have spoken in favour of this amendment have produced a gamut of compel...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 750 c1534 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am not seeking to annoy or cause a nuisance, but I believe that it may well be the wi...

Baroness Howells of St Davids | 750 c1534 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, it is my right to speak. People have mentioned cats and dogs; nobody has mentioned race...

Lord Scott of Foscote | 750 cc1534-5 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I wish to take very little time to make a point which is worth making and has not yet b...

Baroness Smith of Basildon | 750 cc1535-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this is one of those debates that are quite special to your Lordships’ House. I spent 1...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 750 cc1538-1540 (Link to this contribution)

Well, my Lords, this has been an interesting debate. I am not particularly thick-skinned, so I am...

Lord Elton | 750 c1540 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Minister take on board the fact that our concern is not with the Government’s purpose bu...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 750 cc1540-1 (Link to this contribution)

I shall be coming on to that, but I felt I had to place what I was going to say in some context—a...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 750 c1541 (Link to this contribution)

I ask my noble friend the same question that the noble Lord, Lord Faulks, was unable to answer. C...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 750 c1541 (Link to this contribution)

If I might say, it solves the problem of over-complex legislation. Having two tests for the singl...

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 750 c1541 (Link to this contribution)

I do not want to detain my noble friend, but I am asking for an example of the kind of behaviour ...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 750 cc1541-2 (Link to this contribution)

I do not intend to give any examples to my noble friend. I have given the reason why we have a si...

Lord Dear | 750 c1542 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, we have been detained for something over two hours and I shall take no more than a coup...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 750 c1543 (Link to this contribution)

As far as I am concerned, if I go into discussions between now and Third Reading, all the aspects...

Baroness Butler-Sloss | 750 c1543 (Link to this contribution)

I have listened with great care to this debate, and I was undecided when I came into this Chamber...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 750 c1543 (Link to this contribution)

I was asked a parallel question by my noble friend Lord Forsyth. We are trying to simplify the le...

Lord Mackay of Clashfern | 750 c1543 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, if I understand the position that the Minister has taken up, he will have an open discu...

Lord Dear | 750 c1543 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, with the greatest respect to the Minister, I do not think that we can go forward on a p...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 750 c1543 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

3: Clause 1, page 2, line 6, leave out paragraph (a)...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 750 c1543 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in Committee, Clause 1(5)(a) was the subject of some debate. It and the related provisi...

Earl of Lytton | 750 c1543 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I can quite understand the reason why this particular safeguard or defence in injunctiv...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 750 c1543 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, perhaps I may come back to the noble Earl in advance of Third Reading on that to specif...

Baroness Hamwee | 750 c1548 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Baroness Hamwee

4: Clause 1, page 2, line 18, at end insert—

“( ) For ...

Baroness Hamwee | 750 c1548 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendments, 4, 5, 24 and 25 are all directed at a defence for an application for an IPN...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 750 cc1548-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend Lady Hamwee for her explanation of these amendments. S...

Earl of Lytton | 750 c1549 (Link to this contribution)

Do I understand from the Minister then that the normal range of civil defences would continue to ...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 750 cc1549-1550 (Link to this contribution)

As I understand it, that is the case. I was going on to argue the question of defences because th...

Baroness Hamwee | 750 c1550 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, my noble friend is having a difficult enough day, so I reassure him immediately that I ...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 750 c1550 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

6: Clause 1, page 2, leave out line 19 and insert “A...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 750 cc1550-1 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in developing our anti-social behaviour reforms, the Government have, both formally and...

Lord Rosser | 750 cc1551-2 (Link to this contribution)

We understand the reasons for these amendments and for wanting to try to ensure that cases involv...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 750 c1552 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will clarity that. As was put down in the letter of my noble friend on the final poin...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 750 c1552 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

7: Clause 1, page 2, line 21, at end insert—

“...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 750 c1552 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

8: Clause 7, page 5, line 6, at end insert—

“(...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 750 c1552 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

9: Clause 8, page 5, line 31, leave out paragraphs (...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 750 c1553 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

11: Clause 9, page 6, line 8, leave out paragraphs (...

Earl of Listowel | 750 c1553 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

The Earl of Listowel

12: Schedule 2, page 138, line 34, leave out paragraph ...

Earl of Listowel | 750 cc1553-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will speak also to the other amendments in my name in this group. Amendments 12 and 1...

Baroness Hamwee | 750 c1555 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the noble Earl knows how sympathetic I am to his amendments, particularly in regard to ...

Lord Harris of Haringey | 750 c1555 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I have not always felt that the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, has addressed herself to i...

Lord Lucas | 750 c1557 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I share the noble Earl’s appreciation of the late Paul Goggins, in my case from when he...

Baroness Smith of Basildon | 750 cc1557-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, for his generous and kind comments, which we app...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 750 cc1558-9 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I start by joining in the tributes being paid to Paul Goggins. I know that my colleague...

Baroness Smith of Basildon | 750 c1559 (Link to this contribution)

The noble Lord made the point about it being a contempt of court. Can he tell me in how many othe...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 750 cc1559-1561 (Link to this contribution)

Off the top of my head, I cannot, but I hope that the noble Baroness will allow me to write to he...

Earl of Listowel | 750 c1561 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am most grateful to all those who have spoken: the noble Baronesses, Lady Hamwee and ...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 750 c1561 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Taylor of Holbeach

14: Schedule 2, page 139, line 31, leave out paragra...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 750 c1561 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

16: Clause 12, page 6, line 36, at end insert—

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 750 c1562 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in Committee, my noble friend Lady Hamwee questioned whether it was appropriate for und...

Baroness Hamwee | 750 c1562 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, the bad news for the government Front Bench is that this amendment was put down in the ...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 750 c1562 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

17: Clause 13, leave out Clause 13

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 750 c1563 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this amendment follows up the debate in Committee initiated by the noble Lord, Lord Ros...

Lord Rosser | 750 cc1563-4 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I thank the Minister for introducing the government amendment. Any move towards increas...

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 750 c1564 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, to clarify, as I said earlier in moving the amendment, an IPNA could impose the prohibi...

Lord Rosser | 750 c1564 (Link to this contribution)

That would be irrespective of tenure? It would not apply purely to social housing?

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 750 c1564 (Link to this contribution)

As I stated earlier, the purpose behind the IPNA is that it would be tenure-neutral.

Bishop of Ripon and Leeds | 750 c1564 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

The Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds

18: Clause 17, leave out Clause 17

Bishop of Ripon and Leeds | 750 cc1564-6 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, Amendments 18, 26 and 29 set out to remove the presumption that a child will be named p...

Earl of Listowel | 750 c1565 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I support the right reverend Prelate. I was grateful to the Minister for the chance to ...

Baroness Hamwee | 750 cc1565-7 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, in Committee, I tabled an amendment on the clause which was an attempt to suggest a com...

Lord Hope of Craighead | 750 c1567 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I add just a word based on my experience of how these things are dealt with in the cour...

Lord Rosser | 750 cc1567-8 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I will be brief. The Minister has been asked a number of relevant questions and I am su...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 750 cc1568-1570 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, this again has been a good debate on an important issue. Though it is a small part, it ...

Bishop of Ripon and Leeds | 750 c1570 (Link to this contribution)

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that response and I am at least partially reassured b...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 750 cc1570-1 (Link to this contribution)

Moved by

Lord Taylor of Holbeach

19: Clause 18, page 9, line 36, at end insert—

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