My Lords, I rise with a little trepidation following the noble Lord, Lord Winston. I think that all of us who heard that remarkable speech recognise someone who has a real passion not only for his Bill but also for the whole of the medical science that he has been involved with. We are very grateful indeed to him for introducing the Bill.
I welcome my noble friend to the Front Bench. This is the first time that she has replied to a debate that I have taken part in. She always agreed with me when she was on the Back Benches; I trust that she will do the same on this occasion.
I speak in the debate not as a scientist—indeed, I think that all of us here feel rather humble and inadequate compared with the noble Lord, Lord Winston—but as chairman of the Association of Medical Research Charities, which represents some 127 medical research charities. Our members raise about £1.3 billion a year for medical research, which is roughly equivalent to what the Government put into medical research. This is therefore an incredibly pertinent subject for our members. If people are going to donate to medical research charities, they need to have an understanding of what it is that they are donating to, and to have confidence that their donations are going to ethical research.
As a group of charities, we are spending a significant amount of our time at our board meetings and with our members discussing the whole question of the use of animals in science, and what the grants we are making to researchers are being used for. While we are hugely supportive of the three Rs, the reality is that
that is not enough. A campaign by Animal Aid, an organisation aimed at disrupting medical science, has not been effective but has been disturbing. Targeting major charities like Cancer Research UK, Diabetes UK, the British Heart Foundation and the Alzheimer’s Society, it has tried to persuade individuals that donating to these charities means donating to the evil vivisection of animals, and it is therefore wrong and they should stop donating. That is an important issue, because if we were to cut off a significant supply of resources, we would be doing a lot of damage.
The noble Lord has introduced an innovative idea in his Bill, which I am very supportive of, but there are a couple of major questions. First, would it raise awareness about animal research? Secondly, would it have any other impacts that we might not want, such as the ones the noble Lord referred to?
Labelling is not new. In fact, successive Governments have supported the labelling of tobacco products. When they brought that in, they must have thought that it was an effective way of communicating to the public that there are some pretty harmful effects when you buy a packet of cigarettes or cigars. If you are taking a drug that has been prescribed by your GP, approved by NICE and funded by the Government, there is an undeniable logic in having a simple message on it which states, “This is not only okay but has been appropriately tested on animals”. That must be right. But the reality is that simply having a message on the packet is not enough. You need to know what is behind that, and we need to do a great deal more. I am pretty sure that the noble Lord, Lord Winston, would agree with that.
The second issue is whether the provision would have any other impact. Quite frankly, that issue worries me more than the first one. There is a real problem here. The NHS spends around £9 billion a year on its drug bill but hundreds of millions of pounds is wasted because people do not take the drugs they are prescribed or do not complete the course. There is a real challenge as to whether this labelling would lead to people saying, “I will not take that because it has been tested on animals”. You would have to do some market research on the issue. I suspect that it would have a pretty low impact but the research would need to be done.
Are the public attuned with this issue? BIS, using Ipsos MORI, regularly looks at the public’s attitude to using animals in medical research. The majority of the public seem to accept that research using animals is necessary. However, the latest poll, in April 2012, shows a slight drop in public support for research. The last time the research was done, in 2010, about 73% said that they supported the use of animals in research if certain conditions were met. That number dropped to 63% in 2012, with the number of those objecting to the use of animals in medical science increasing from about 35% to 37%.
I support the Bill introduced by the noble Lord, Lord Winston, because of those figures. There is clearly a slight shift in the public’s attitude which needs to be addressed; it cannot simply be ignored as a blip. Although the number of those wanting an outright ban has consistently decreased every time a new poll is taken, the number of those who want to know more is
nevertheless increasing. I think that that is healthy. If people are saying, “I don’t know how to answer your question because I don’t know what animals are being used for”, it is an important statement.
It is important that all of us involved in this area of science—whether we be scientists or charitable funders, as in my case—try to do more. The public are very supportive of medical research charities but our members have to do more. It is not good enough simply to give grants to scientists to carry out important research; we should also be telling our members what those grants are being used for. In fact, many of our grants are being used to research key conditions such as cancer and Parkinson’s and to find cures for arthritis. We are funding all those key areas. We have therefore been encouraging our charities to be much more open and to ensure that they explain their role, and they have been very effective indeed in doing so.
For instance, Alzheimer’s Research UK has produced an interesting leaflet, Why Research using Animals can help defeat Dementia, which clearly states:
“Flies and mice bred to develop amyloid and tau in their brains have been vital for helping scientists understand these hallmark Alzheimer’s proteins, tracking how they build up and finding clues to why this could be so damaging in people”.
Almost every family in the land who includes an elderly person will have somebody involved with dementia or Alzheimer’s. It is important to tell people that by using animals we are on a journey to finding at least amelioration, which we hope will lead to cures at some time in the future.
The British Heart Foundation has produced some marvellous publicity showing how vital medicines using ACE inhibitors are allowing people to live longer. Again, that is directly relevant to the reasons for using it on animals. The foundation also had a marvellous campaign using zebra fish. It had large billboards illustrating that the use of zebra fish has had a significant impact in improving our understanding of how the heart works; indeed, it has been able to look at regrowing proteins to effect cures. A significant number of our members have had similar campaigns that I could mention.
AMRC can, however, do more. We have established an animal research working group of all our members to ensure that every one of them that funds animal research talks about it and makes clear to their members what they are doing. We also recognise that we have to work with the bioscience industry to develop openness. In 2012, some 40 organisations within the charitable sector of the bioscience industry that are involved in funding animal research for medical science came together to launch their Declaration on Openness on Animal Research, which committed all signatories to agreeing principles and practical steps for the whole community.
All these steps are important in driving forward the idea. Interestingly, over the past few months the International Debate Education Association has been posing the question in universities on whether, “This House would ban all forms of animal research”. I think that the debating society at the university where the noble Lord is the chancellor debated that target. Of the 24 universities that held a debate among their
young, intelligent people, every single one rejected the proposal that we should ban animal science. If you bring this debate to people and give them proper, educated, adult reasoning, the result is a buy-in and understanding of what you are trying to do.
I am sad to say, however, that there is a real issue with the Department of Health. I understand that the department does not itself fund research using animals. At this point, I should say that I could not compliment the Government more for their funding of science, particularly medical science. The Medical Research Council had an above- inflation grant from the last spending round while the NIHR, which looks at medical research within the NHS, has constantly had increased funding. I have no gripes at all in that area. When it comes to recognising that animals are used to develop scientific cures both in pharmaceuticals and in the procedures used in the NHS, however, the NHS is silent. There is nothing on the NIHR website which supports the use of animals in science but there is a bold statement which basically says, “We do not use and do not fund the use of animals in science”.
In order for the noble Lord’s Bill to have real success, it needs a buy-in from the department. The department must lead on this. It cannot simply say that it is BIS or another department that does science using animals and that, “It’s nothing to do with us, gov”. It has to be a standard bearer and say that patients are treated because animals have been used quite humanely and quite superbly in terms of finding cures for a host of diseases. I hope that the Bill receives a Second Reading and that the Government will give it a fair wind as it moves through the House.
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