My Lords, this must be the first time in parliamentary history for the amendments to a Bill to be more than three times the length of the Bill itself. Moreover, as others have said, the complexity of both the Bill and the amendments is quite barbaric. I must admit that when I put all the papers on my dining room table to try to make head or tail of them, they occupied 10 feet of space, including all the so-called explanatory documents. Having said that, I thank my noble friend Lord Deighton, who has at least listened to what was said at Second Reading. He has an open mind, which has undoubtedly led to the introduction of a lot of the measures in the amendments that we are now debating in Committee.
I thoroughly support Amendment 3, largely for the same reasons given by the noble Lord, Lord Higgins. We are groping around in an extraordinarily complex
area of life and it is abundantly sensible to have these reviews—not just of ring-fencing but a series of reviews—to see how we are coming along and whether the suppositions we are making in the course of this legislation prove to be correct. I disagree with the noble Lords, Lord Eatwell and Lord Tunnicliffe. We need to give time for these new arrangements to bed down and show their paces. Frankly, in each case, four and five years are likely to be better than two years.
I will make a few quick points on the way in which Amendment 3 is put together. We will have an opportunity at the next stage to make changes to what is currently before us. A review panel formed of five persons is unnecessarily large. You might well get by better with three or even two people, so more thought is needed on that. I also note that there is a requirement that the PRA and the FCA carry out their independent reviews but that they publish a joint outcome. Proposed new Section 142J(4) says that they,
“must publish a joint assessment of the impact of the operation of their ring-fencing rules”.
However, they may not agree. You have at least to allow, in this terminology, that that may be the case. You cannot force consensus upon these two august bodies.
The other point is in relation to the appointment of the chair and the endorsement of the Treasury Committee of the House of Commons. It requires that the person appointed,
“is likely to act independently of the Treasury, the PRA and the FCA”.
We should provide that the person is likely to act independently, full stop. It is not only required that they are independent of those three bodies; general independence is required, and so I suggest that those words be excluded.
Finally, proposed new Section 142JA(3) states:
“The persons appointed to conduct a review must include at least one person with substantial experience”.
That is one person out of five. If we are to stick with five people—and I suggest fewer, or at least the prospect of fewer—it is not enough to have only one with experience of all this. This is an extremely complex area of life—there is no area more complex—and experience on the part of more than one person on this panel reviewers is essential.
That was not quite my final point; I have another quick comment. Proposed new Section 142JB(4) states:
“The report must include … recommendations to the Treasury as to the provision that should be included in orders and regulations”.
It is not inconceivable that there may be no recommendations. Indeed, it is very conceivable that there may be more than one. Therefore the language of proposed new subsection (4) needs amending. I will leave it at that, but I commend the noble Lords who tabled the amendment in this group.