UK Parliament / Open data

Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Bill

Debate on bills on Tuesday, 18 July 2023, in the House of Commons, led by Chris Heaton-Harris. The answering member was Peter Kyle.
Consideration of Lords amendments. Clause 13, Lords amendment 20 discussed with Government amendments (a) and (b) in lieu of Lords amendment 20, other Lords amendments and Government motions. Motion to disagree with Lords amendment 20. Agreed to. Clause 18, motion to disagree with Lords amendment 44. Agreed to on division (292 to 200) Government amendments (a) to (c) made and restored to the Bill. Lords amendments 1 to 19, 21 to 43, 45 to 118, 120 to 129 and 119 agreed to. Government consequential amendment (a) made to Lords amendment 119.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

736 cc823-855 

Session

2022-23

Legislative stage

Lords amendments

Procedure

Proxy voting

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber

Proceeding contributions

Chris Heaton-Harris | 736 c824 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That this House disagrees with Lords amendment 20.

Nigel Evans | 736 c824 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss:

Government amendments (a) and (b) in lieu of Lo...


Show all contributions (81)
Chris Heaton-Harris | 736 cc824-6 (Link to this contribution)

I am delighted to speak to this Bill following its year-long passage through the other place. I p...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 736 c826 (Link to this contribution)

Can the Secretary of State confirm to the House how many ongoing IRA trials are taking place vis-...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 736 c826 (Link to this contribution)

I do not have those figures with me, but I will get them from my officials and give them to the h...

Mark Francois | 736 c826 (Link to this contribution)

The Secretary of State said that it has taken a year for the Bill to go through the House of Lord...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 736 c827 (Link to this contribution)

I am a great believer in short and honest answers to such questions, and the answer is yes.

Mark Francois | 736 c827 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Secretary of State give way?

Nigel Evans | 736 c827 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman really does have to be pithier than he was in his last intervention. By ...

Mark Francois | 736 c827 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Secretary of State for that clear answer, but could he just with a couple of sentence...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 736 c827 (Link to this contribution)

I will turn to elements of this later in my speech, but I referred earlier to the importance of t...

Julian Lewis | 736 c827 (Link to this contribution)

The Secretary of State will be aware that it was back in April 2017 that the then Defence Committ...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 736 c827 (Link to this contribution)

There is obviously no statute of limitations. The Bill has moved on and, as I said, I would like ...

Natalie Elphicke | 736 c827 (Link to this contribution)

We recently held the memorial concert for the Deal marine musicians who were murdered by the IRA ...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 736 c827 (Link to this contribution)

In answer to my hon. Friend’s first question, I confirm the geographical jurisdiction. On her sec...

Jim Shannon | 736 c828 (Link to this contribution)

The Secretary of State mentioned the issue of all the victims. The justice that many victims want...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 736 c828 (Link to this contribution)

It is contained within the Bill and within the independence of the commission, which will be able...

Jim Shannon | 736 c828 (Link to this contribution)

Fifty-one years ago, my cousin Kenneth Smyth was murdered—[Interruption.] Kenneth Smyth was murde...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 736 cc828-9 (Link to this contribution)

First, I completely recognise the emotion with which the hon. Gentleman has expressed his views. ...

Mark Francois | 736 c830 (Link to this contribution)

Sinn Féin has always argued that, because in the early years of the troubles fatal shootings by a...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 736 c830 (Link to this contribution)

No.

Turning now to the role of victims and families—

Mark Francois | 736 c830 (Link to this contribution)

Sorry, does the Minister want to explain that?

Chris Heaton-Harris | 736 cc830-1 (Link to this contribution)

I will happily explain a bit later, when I have finished what I am saying.

Turning now to t...

Gavin Robinson | 736 c831 (Link to this contribution)

The Secretary of State has made an important point about the R v. Adams case and the disregarding...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 736 cc831-2 (Link to this contribution)

Well, perhaps it is a case of better late than never. These are Government amendments, but I am t...

Stephen Farry | 736 c832 (Link to this contribution)

Does the Secretary of State recognise the huge concern felt by families who do not think it is pr...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 736 c832 (Link to this contribution)

Our amendment provides until 1 May 2024 for inquests to conclude. Since the Bill’s introduction, ...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 736 c833 (Link to this contribution)

The Secretary of State is very kind and generous to give way. Before he concludes, would he care ...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 736 c833 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question. There have been a number of quite forthright convers...

Mark Francois | 736 c833 (Link to this contribution)

I have been waiting patiently for the Secretary of State to answer the question that I asked him ...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 736 c833 (Link to this contribution)

I think my hon. Friend will remember that I gave him a direct answer and he wanted something that...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 736 c833 (Link to this contribution)

The ICRIR has always, as a public body, needed to comply with all its duties under the Human Righ...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 736 cc833-4 (Link to this contribution)

There you go; we beg to differ.

Finally, through these amendments the term “the relevant da...

Peter Kyle | 736 c834 (Link to this contribution)

The Bill has managed to unite all Northern Ireland parties in opposition to it. The word “reconci...

James Sunderland | 736 c834 (Link to this contribution)

I was intrigued to hear the Leader of the Opposition publicly state last week that, if he were to...

Peter Kyle | 736 cc834-5 (Link to this contribution)

Labour believes in a more consensual way forward. We believe that, in the past, there has been ag...

Peter Kyle | 736 cc835-6 (Link to this contribution)

Okay. I will move on.

The Secretary of State has clearly been trying to do his best with a ...

Peter Kyle | 736 c836 (Link to this contribution)

Shadow Minister, for the time being.

Jeffrey M Donaldson | 736 c836 (Link to this contribution)

I was going to make that clear in my comments. I thank the shadow Secretary of State for what he ...

Peter Kyle | 736 cc836-7 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Member makes his point passionately, with great erudition and personal experience ...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 736 c837 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the shadow Secretary of State for emphasising that point, because it highlights the folly...

Peter Kyle | 736 cc837-8 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. These are very difficult issues and of ...

Richard Thomson | 736 cc838-9 (Link to this contribution)

I do not intend to spend long on my feet, as I have made all the points that I would seek to make...

Nigel Evans | 736 c839 (Link to this contribution)

We have seven Members who wish to speak. I will impose a seven-minute time limit to make sure tha...

Gavin Robinson | 736 cc839-840 (Link to this contribution)

I appreciate the brevity with which the hon. Member for Gordon (Richard Thomson) spoke, and the f...

Colum Eastwood | 736 cc840-1 (Link to this contribution)

Unlike some of the people who have been involved in this debate more recently, who have left the ...

Jeffrey M Donaldson | 736 c841 (Link to this contribution)

To support the hon. Member’s point about the work of Jon Boutcher and his team in Op Kenova, he w...

Colum Eastwood | 736 cc842-3 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Member is absolutely right. The families involved—we do have to be careful—in thos...

Conor McGinn | 736 cc843-4 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Foyle (Colum Eastwood). I want to speak ...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 736 cc844-5 (Link to this contribution)

The Secretary of State said that immunity will be blocked if there is an ongoing process. Of cour...

Colum Eastwood | 736 c845 (Link to this contribution)

Can I ask the hon. Gentleman to be very careful in his language? The last time that solicitors we...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 736 cc845-6 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Member for that, but he should be very clear that I did not actually mention sol...

Stephen Farry | 736 cc846-8 (Link to this contribution)

I will start by putting on the record my appreciation for the efforts of the Government, in parti...

Carla Lockhart | 736 c848 (Link to this contribution)

I rise to oppose this legislation in the strongest possible terms and to speak on behalf of the m...

Sammy Wilson | 736 c849 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend also think that we are talking not just about the legacy of the past and the ...

Carla Lockhart | 736 cc849-850 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend makes such a valid point on the impact the Bill will have on young people an...

Jim Shannon | 736 c850 (Link to this contribution)

I am pleased to speak in this debate and to put forward the desires of the people of Strangford i...

Roger Gale | 736 c850 (Link to this contribution)

Order. I invite the hon. Gentleman to have a glass of water and compose himself. When you are rea...

Jim Shannon | 736 cc850-1 (Link to this contribution)

Kenneth took us shooting when we were small. I remember him well; he instilled a love of the coun...

Paul Girvan | 736 c851 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend has just highlighted a number of individuals who potentially will never see justic...

Jim Shannon | 736 cc851-2 (Link to this contribution)

When I think of my cousin Kenneth Smyth, I think of Daniel McCormick, a Roman Catholic. They were...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 736 cc852-3 (Link to this contribution)

With the leave of the House, I would like to answer a few of the points that have been raised.

Colum Eastwood | 736 c853 (Link to this contribution)

That is an interesting take on the matter, given what I remember happening at the time. Yes, the ...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 736 c853 (Link to this contribution)

Let me say to the hon. Gentleman, with the greatest respect, that he has his particular view of w...

Stephen Farry | 736 c853 (Link to this contribution)

May I just point out that “New Decade, New Approach”, which was authored by this Government throu...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 736 c853 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is right, but that became unworkable and impractical because the political con...

Colum Eastwood | 736 c854 (Link to this contribution)

Can the Secretary of State think of any time in history when a murderer lied?

Chris Heaton-Harris | 736 c854 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his concise argument, but I can also think of no part of Northern ...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 736 c854 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Secretary of State give way?

Chris Heaton-Harris | 736 c854 (Link to this contribution)

I am afraid I do not have the time.

I wish to close by reiterating that the Government have...

Peter Kyle | 736 cc854-5 (Link to this contribution)

The Secretary of State is quoting from a response to an intervention from the right hon. Member f...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 736 c855 (Link to this contribution)

I think I might have struck a nerve there. Today the Government will demonstrate that they are co...

Stephanie Peacock | 736 c855 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I recently asked the Minister for Immigration what the co...

Roger Gale | 736 c855 (Link to this contribution)

Order. The hon. Lady will be fully aware that all Members, including Ministers, are responsible f...

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