UK Parliament / Open data

Health and Social Care Levy Bill

Debate on bills on Tuesday, 14 September 2021, in the House of Commons, led by Steve Barclay. The answering member was James Murray.
Second reading. Amendment negatived on division (249 to 327). Main question agreed to on division (317 to 256).

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

700 cc839-887 

Session

2021-22

Department

Treasury

Legislative stage

Second reading

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber
Health and Social Care Levy Bill 2021-22
Wednesday, 8 September 2021
Bills
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 700 c840 (Link to this contribution)

The reasoned amendment in the name of the Leader of the Opposition has been selected.

2.10 ...

Steve Barclay | 700 c840 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

Last week the Prime Minister announ...


Show all contributions (124)
John Baron | 700 c840 (Link to this contribution)

We need to give credit where it is due, and the Government are absolutely right to try to grasp t...

Steve Barclay | 700 c840 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend, and good friend, has raised two connected points. The first was dealt with earlie...

Geraint Davies | 700 c840 (Link to this contribution)

Does the Secretary of State agree that in principle hypothecation is to be avoided, and that what...

Steve Barclay | 700 c841 (Link to this contribution)

There is a precedent in the form of what the hon. Gentleman’s party did in 2002-03. I do not thin...

Andrew Mitchell | 700 c841 (Link to this contribution)

I have a great deal of sympathy with what my right hon. Friend is saying, and I think the Governm...

Steve Barclay | 700 c841 (Link to this contribution)

As a former Chief Whip, my right hon. Friend knows better than most that it is for the House to d...

Andrew Mitchell | 700 c841 (Link to this contribution)

Will my right hon. Friend give way?

Steve Barclay | 700 c841 (Link to this contribution)

I will make a little progress. I have taken a number of interventions, including one from my righ...

Steve Barclay | 700 c841 (Link to this contribution)

I am sure that the hon. Lady rises to welcome the progressive nature of that measure.

Catherine West | 700 c841 (Link to this contribution)

Does the Secretary of State accept that, if 40% of businesses or employers are not affected, the ...

Steve Barclay | 700 c842 (Link to this contribution)

It is not just that the first 40% will not pay anything, as my right hon. Friend the Chancellor m...

Steve Brine | 700 c842 (Link to this contribution)

In my experience of being a Minister at the Department of Health—with my right hon. Friend, indee...

Steve Barclay | 700 c842 (Link to this contribution)

I could probably go slightly further—Chief Secretaries do not like to spend, not necessarily just...

Christine Jardine | 700 c842 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister has made the point that we see the impact in our constituencies. Yes, we do, but we ...

Steve Barclay | 700 c842 (Link to this contribution)

First, in order to meet the quantum of spend, one needs a broad-based tax. That is a point that m...

Jonathan Edwards | 700 c843 (Link to this contribution)

What analysis has been undertaken of the long-term sustainability of this policy, which targets w...

Steve Barclay | 700 c843 (Link to this contribution)

Again, this is why, as is standard practice, my right hon. Friend the Financial Secretary to the ...

Steve Barclay | 700 c843 (Link to this contribution)

I want to make some progress, and I have already given way once to the hon. Member for Swansea We...

Munira Wilson | 700 c843 (Link to this contribution)

Could the right hon. Gentleman explain to people up and down the country who are either in receip...

Steve Barclay | 700 c843 (Link to this contribution)

In a number of ways. First, this fiscal support is not in isolation. There is £33.9 billion of ad...

Steve Barclay | 700 c844 (Link to this contribution)

Given that we need to progress on to Committee, I shall just point out that this is a permanent n...

Richard Drax | 700 c844 (Link to this contribution)

With money tight, did the Treasury support the appointment of, I think, 43 new executives on £270...

Steve Barclay | 700 c844 (Link to this contribution)

I think one needs to see whether these are roles that are driving efficiency and creating savings...

Clive Efford | 700 c844 (Link to this contribution)

It seems to me that we are spending this money twice, so can the Minister tell the House specific...

Steve Barclay | 700 c844 (Link to this contribution)

Of the £36 billion, £5.4 billion is going to adult social care, with the rest going into the NHS ...

Andrea Leadsom | 700 c844 (Link to this contribution)

Does my right hon. Friend think that the Government could consider different bands for frontline ...

Steve Barclay | 700 c845 (Link to this contribution)

In the public sector pay agreement that we reached, we accepted the recommendations of the indepe...

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 700 c845 (Link to this contribution)

Before I call the shadow Minister, I should say that there will be a six-minute limit on Back-Ben...

James Murray | 700 cc845-6 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move an amendment, to leave out from “That” to the end of the Question and add:

“t...

Catherine West | 700 c846 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that these problems began in 2010? The NHS’s satisfaction rate in 2009 ...

James Murray | 700 c846 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes an important point about the Conservative Government’s impact on the nationa...

Gary Sambrook | 700 c846 (Link to this contribution)

On the basis of those two tests, which tax would the hon. Gentleman increase to pay for social ca...

James Murray | 700 c846 (Link to this contribution)

We are clear that taxes will have to rise to pay for social care, but we are also clear that this...

Debbie Abrahams | 700 c846 (Link to this contribution)

I was going to pose this question to the Minister, but he would not take my intervention. Last we...

James Murray | 700 c846 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes us think about what we have read recently about what the hon. Member for Yeo...

Andrew Murrison | 700 c846 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman has been speaking for some time, but he has not said what taxes he would raise...

James Murray | 700 cc846-7 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman speaks about a tax rise 20 years ago, following a decade of wage growth,...

Marcus Fysh | 700 c847 (Link to this contribution)

My comments have been misreported. The origins of the Labour movement and the Liberal movement ar...

James Murray | 700 cc847-8 (Link to this contribution)

As the hon. Gentleman is on our side, I look forward to him joining us in the Lobby this evening....

Lord Mackinlay of Richborough | 700 c848 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is talking about a two-tier system. Is he saying that the millions of people i...

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 700 c848 (Link to this contribution)

Order. The hon. Gentleman is experienced enough to know that he should not speak directly to anot...

James Murray | 700 c848 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Member for South Thanet (Craig Mackinlay) knows full well that his question is not relev...

Andrea Leadsom | 700 c848 (Link to this contribution)

What would the hon. Gentleman do about the backlog of 5 million people, as a result of covid, wai...

James Murray | 700 cc848-850 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Lady raises points about the backlog in the NHS. We have had 10 years of a Conserv...

James Murray | 700 c850 (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps the hon. Gentleman would like to intervene to answer that question.

Andrew Griffith | 700 c850 (Link to this contribution)

I am just wondering whether the hon. Gentleman’s tax primer in low corporate taxes has enlightene...

James Murray | 700 c850 (Link to this contribution)

We have been absolutely clear that when it comes to funding the NHS and social care, those with t...

Jeremy Hunt | 700 cc850-1 (Link to this contribution)

Select Committee Chairs have to hold the Government to account, but just occasionally they also h...

Steve Brine | 700 c851 (Link to this contribution)

Will my right hon. Friend use his position on the Select Committee and his vast experience to scr...

Jeremy Hunt | 700 c851 (Link to this contribution)

As it happens, we are currently conducting an inquiry into how to deal with the covid backlog, so...

Jeremy Hunt | 700 c851 (Link to this contribution)

I will give way and then make some progress.

Clive Efford | 700 c851 (Link to this contribution)

I have heard what the former Secretary of State has said about the record on social care, but can...

Jeremy Hunt | 700 cc851-2 (Link to this contribution)

First, we passed the Care Act 2014, which put in place the legislative foundations for the propos...

Jeremy Hunt | 700 c852 (Link to this contribution)

I will make some progress, if I may.

The second trap is that we must not inadvertently slee...

Jeremy Hunt | 700 c852 (Link to this contribution)

I am going to make some progress, if I may.

Finally, let me say this. We, as Conservatives,...

Alison Thewliss | 700 cc852-4 (Link to this contribution)

To start where the right hon. Member for South West Surrey (Jeremy Hunt) left off, in the Bill be...

Christine Jardine | 700 c854 (Link to this contribution)

Can the hon. Lady explain how Scottish taxpayers, of which I am one, are paying for this levy? I ...

Alison Thewliss | 700 cc854-5 (Link to this contribution)

The point is that we do not know what we will get out of this. We do not know because it is not c...

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 700 c855 (Link to this contribution)

In order to try to get everybody in, I will reduce the time limit to five minutes, and I have bee...

Marcus Fysh | 700 c855 (Link to this contribution)

I will not speak for long now because I want to speak at the Committee stage later on.

We a...

John Redwood | 700 c856 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend share my surprise that the Treasury can be precise in saying that it needs £1...

Marcus Fysh | 700 c856 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend makes a good point. Yes, it would have been great to have had more detailed ...

Baroness Hodge of Barking | 700 c856 (Link to this contribution)

I hope that the hon. Member for Yeovil (Mr Fysh) will join the Opposition in the Lobby tonight gi...

Taiwo Owatemi | 700 c856 (Link to this contribution)

Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is completely unfair that a graduate nurse who works a ni...

Baroness Hodge of Barking | 700 c857 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes the point very powerfully. I was going to illustrate it more generally by sa...

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 700 c858 (Link to this contribution)

Obviously we have had one or two interventions along the way, so after the next speaker I shall r...

Paul Bristow | 700 cc858-9 (Link to this contribution)

I refer the House to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. As a member of the...

Mick Whitley | 700 cc859-860 (Link to this contribution)

I draw the attention of the House to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests.

John Redwood | 700 cc860-1 (Link to this contribution)

I urge the Government to think again about the health plans. On the Treasury figures, this year t...

Helen Hayes | 700 cc861-2 (Link to this contribution)

I rise to speak as a co-chair of the all-party parliamentary group on adult social care. Since th...

Ruth Edwards | 700 cc862-3 (Link to this contribution)

It started with a series of bizarre reports from my grandmother. My grandfather had started to pu...

Christine Jardine | 700 c863 (Link to this contribution)

I do not believe there can be many issues on which this House is more intent than ensuring the fu...

Andrew Griffith | 700 cc863-4 (Link to this contribution)

I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Rushcliffe (Ruth Edwards) for her remarks.

M...

Anthony Browne | 700 c864 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that it is the height of political cynicism for Opposition parties to c...

Andrew Griffith | 700 c864 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend, as ever, makes an important point. We should be on a quest for consensus, and it ...

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 700 c864 (Link to this contribution)

Order. Before we move on, I remind colleagues—I am sure they know—that it is very courteous to li...

Rachael Maskell | 700 cc864-6 (Link to this contribution)

Take no comfort, nor relief. Those things you dread will still be true. But now, poorer through l...

John Baron | 700 c866 (Link to this contribution)

I join many Members who have already spoken in wholeheartedly supporting the Government in trying...

Tim Farron | 700 cc866-7 (Link to this contribution)

I probably agreed with at least three quarters of what the hon. Member for Basildon and Billerica...

Andrew Murrison | 700 c867 (Link to this contribution)

I am loth to give the hon. Gentleman an extra minute, but I must ask him how much he would put on...

Tim Farron | 700 c868 (Link to this contribution)

We would need to raise income tax to do what the hon. Gentleman’s Government say they need to do ...

Lord Mackinlay of Richborough | 700 cc868-9 (Link to this contribution)

In common with my hon. Friend the Member for Basildon and Billericay (Mr Baron), I am wondering—I...

Andrew Murrison | 700 c869 (Link to this contribution)

Of course, we have also had a wealth tax in the form of the removal of indexation allowance on ca...

Lord Mackinlay of Richborough | 700 c869 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful to my right hon. Friend for highlighting some of the fiscal drags that have be...

Fleur Anderson | 700 cc869-871 (Link to this contribution)

I would like to declare an interest, as my daughter is a care worker.

I pay tribute to care...

Mike Penning | 700 cc871-2 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow many colleagues who have talked from the heart about the great concern...

Jim Shannon | 700 cc872-3 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you for calling me to speak, Mr Deputy Speaker. Like many others, I am put in a difficult p...

Martin Vickers | 700 cc873-4 (Link to this contribution)

As someone with naturally Conservative instincts, I am inclined to say no to tax increases, and t...

Geraint Davies | 700 cc874-5 (Link to this contribution)

The only way to sustainably finance the costs of social care and the NHS for an ageing population...

Andrew Murrison | 700 cc875-6 (Link to this contribution)

I will certainly be supporting the Government in the Lobby this evening, and the reason is this: ...

Kim Johnson | 700 cc876-7 (Link to this contribution)

I pay tribute to the social care workers working in care homes and the domiciliary sector in my L...

Richard Drax | 700 cc877-8 (Link to this contribution)

I am a great believer in the Conservative philosophy being probably the simplest of those of all ...

Catherine West | 700 c878 (Link to this contribution)

I must agree with the hon. Member for South Dorset (Richard Drax) in one regard: we are talking t...

Matt Rodda | 700 c878 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way on that very good point. Does she agree that it is...

Catherine West | 700 c879 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend, who always talks about the impact of measures of this sort on those who rent, mak...

Alexander Stafford | 700 c879 (Link to this contribution)

I am listening carefully to the hon. Lady’s interesting speech and her list of what her constitue...

Catherine West | 700 cc879-880 (Link to this contribution)

I am sure that when the shadow Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Erith and Thamesmead (Aben...

Duncan Baker | 700 c880 (Link to this contribution)

Whether it is speaking about young carers, improving the pay and conditions of our care workers o...

Geraint Davies | 700 c880 (Link to this contribution)

I know the hon. Member said that it would be fiscally irresponsible to increase debt, but is he a...

Duncan Baker | 700 cc880-1 (Link to this contribution)

I am sure the hon. Gentleman will remember the old adage that what goes up must come down, and, o...

Nigel Evans | 700 c881 (Link to this contribution)

To resume her seat no later than 4.45 pm—we will put the timer on—I call Nickie Aiken.

4.41...

Nickie Aiken | 700 cc881-2 (Link to this contribution)

I am a low-tax Conservative, but I have concluded over many years that if we are to resolve the s...

Abena Oppong-Asare | 700 c882 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to respond to this Second Reading debate on behalf of the official Opposition. I...

Gary Sambrook | 700 c882 (Link to this contribution)

We have had three hours of this Second Reading debate, and as far as I am concerned, not a single...

Abena Oppong-Asare | 700 cc883-4 (Link to this contribution)

I am a bit concerned that the hon. Member has not been listening to the debate carefully. We have...

Jesse Norman | 700 c884 (Link to this contribution)

I thank everyone who has taken part in what has been, with one or two exceptions, a generally con...

Jesse Norman | 700 c885 (Link to this contribution)

There have been 27 speeches, so, if I may, I will continue for a while. I may take an interventio...

Catherine West | 700 c885 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister for giving way, as he mentioned me. The UK economy has seen enormou...

Jesse Norman | 700 c885 (Link to this contribution)

I am desperately sad, because I thought the hon. Lady was going to answer my questions about Labo...

Paul Holmes | 700 c885 (Link to this contribution)

I do not think that the Minister will mind me saying that he has served in the House for slightly...

Jesse Norman | 700 cc885-7 (Link to this contribution)

It is a desperate shame that the Labour party has decided to take this party political position, ...

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