UK Parliament / Open data

Northern Ireland (Executive Formation) Bill

Debate on bills and Committee of the Whole House (HC) on Tuesday, 9 July 2019, in the House of Commons, led by Conor McGinn. The answering member was John Penrose.
Committee stage. New clause 1, discussed with new clauses 2, 4, 6, 8 and 10, debated and agreed to on division (383 to 73). New clauses 2 and 6 added to the Bill. New clause 10 agreed to on division (332 to 99). Clause 1, discussed with clauses 2 to 4 stand part, new clauses 11, 12, 15 to 18, 20 and 21, debated and agreed to. Clauses 1 and 2 ordered to stand part. Amendment 6 to clause 3 agreed to on division (308 to 228). Further amendments made. Amendment 15 to clause 3 agreed to on division (294 to 293). Amendment 16 to clause 3 negatived on division (289 to 292). Amendment 17 to clause 3 negatived on division (289 to 293). Clause 3, as amended, and clause 4 ordered to stand part. New clauses 20 and 21 added to the Bill. Deputy Speaker resumed the Chair. Bill, as amended, reported. Third reading. Agreed to on question. Bill passed.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

663 cc160-281 

Session

2017-19

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber
Northern Ireland (Executive Formation) Bill 2017-19
Thursday, 4 July 2019
Bills
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 663 c161 (Link to this contribution)

We will begin with new clause 1, but before I call the hon. Member for St Helens North (Conor McG...

Conor McGinn | 663 c161 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.


Show all contributions (262)
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 663 cc161-4 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

New clause 2—Pension for victims ...

Conor McGinn | 663 cc164-5 (Link to this contribution)

I rise to speak to new clause 1 in my name and the names of many right hon. and hon. Friends and ...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 663 c165 (Link to this contribution)

Is the hon. Member at all concerned that the implication of this could impact on the negotiation ...

Conor McGinn | 663 c165 (Link to this contribution)

I think the hon. Gentleman is posing a question for his own party and other participants in the t...

Joanna Cherry | 663 c165 (Link to this contribution)

We are very proud of the introduction of equal marriage in Scotland under an SNP Government, led ...

Conor McGinn | 663 c166 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. and learned Lady for her intervention and pay tribute to her and her colleague t...

Conor McGinn | 663 c166 (Link to this contribution)

I will give way to the hon. Lady and then to the right hon. Gentleman.

Lady Hermon | 663 c166 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman for allowing me to intervene. May I just remind him of t...

Conor McGinn | 663 c166 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Lady again for the direct way in which she puts the question. I was not old enou...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 663 c166 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way and for giving way so frequently so early...

Conor McGinn | 663 c167 (Link to this contribution)

Regulations would come forward in the usual form, on the basis of a vote tonight approving the me...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 663 c167 (Link to this contribution)

No one challenges the hon. Gentleman’s sincerity, both on the point of his desire to see relation...

Conor McGinn | 663 c167 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Gentleman for what he has said and I will answer him very directly. Far from usu...

Wes Streeting | 663 c167 (Link to this contribution)

The constitutional debate we are hearing this afternoon is very important—no one would deny that....

Conor McGinn | 663 c168 (Link to this contribution)

I think it is. That has always been my contention and I hope to speak on that in my closing remar...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 663 c168 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is being very generous. He makes a point about rights. There is the protection...

Conor McGinn | 663 c168 (Link to this contribution)

It is very important that we have a mechanism where sensitive, cultural or constitutional issues ...

Hannah Bardell | 663 c168 (Link to this contribution)

I pay tribute to the very pragmatic and careful way the hon. Gentleman has drafted his new clause...

Conor McGinn | 663 c168 (Link to this contribution)

I appreciate the hon. Lady’s remarks and the work she has done in Scotland. I also appreciate her...

Stephen Doughty | 663 c168 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend knows his new clause has my full support. As I made clear on Second Reading last n...

Conor McGinn | 663 c168 (Link to this contribution)

Absolutely. I see that my hon. Friend the Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Ged Killen) is...

Owen Smith | 663 c169 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is making an excellent speech and I wholeheartedly support his new clause. Does he...

Conor McGinn | 663 c169 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. Friend for what he said and for the work he did as shadow Secretary of State for ...

Tim Loughton | 663 c169 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is being generous in taking interventions. I am very pleased to have added my ...

Conor McGinn | 663 c169 (Link to this contribution)

I very much appreciate the sentiment, but let us get through today first and then we can have a c...

Gavin Robinson | 663 c169 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Conor McGinn | 663 c169 (Link to this contribution)

I will, but I am afraid I will then have to close.

Gavin Robinson | 663 c169 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman. I appreciate him taking this intervention. I hope he re...

Conor McGinn | 663 c170 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his comments. I have always been clear that I am an MP from Northe...

Maria Miller | 663 cc170-1 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for St Helens North (Conor McGinn), who made a powerfu...

Huw Merriman | 663 c171 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend, who chairs the Select Committee, is making an excellent speech. The judgmen...

Maria Miller | 663 cc171-2 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend gets to the nub of the matter. The human rights organisation in Northern Ireland d...

Vicky Ford | 663 c172 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend is making an excellent speech. As a member of the Women and Equalities Commi...

Maria Miller | 663 cc172-3 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. Friend for all her work on the Select Committee, of which she is a valuable and v...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 663 cc173-4 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you, Dame Eleanor, for giving me an opportunity to speak briefly about the new clauses and ...

Sammy Wilson | 663 c174 (Link to this contribution)

Does my right hon. Friend not find it amazing that when we spent literally hours in the House deb...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 663 c174 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend has made an important point. We are to have four hours of debate on this and...

Owen Smith | 663 c174 (Link to this contribution)

Does the right hon. Gentleman not accept that there have been instances in the recent past when w...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 663 c174 (Link to this contribution)

I think that the hon. Gentleman is mistaken in relation to that issue, but there have been instan...

Conor McGinn | 663 c174 (Link to this contribution)

May I draw the right hon. Gentleman’s attention to his own new clauses 15 and 17, which propose t...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 663 cc174-5 (Link to this contribution)

I shall deal with new clauses 15 and 17 when we discuss the second batch of new clauses and amend...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 663 c175 (Link to this contribution)

The point my right hon. Friend makes about the late Sir Anthony Hart’s inquiry is all the more po...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 663 c175 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for pointing out that and the role the Select Committee has playe...

Emma Little Pengelly | 663 c175 (Link to this contribution)

I had the opportunity to work very closely with the late Sir Anthony Hart. He conducted the inqui...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 663 c175 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, I agree; that is entirely right. This points to where we should be taking things forward in ...

Maria Miller | 663 c176 (Link to this contribution)

As has been said, it is important for us to be taking forward things that have got agreement. The...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 663 cc176-7 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Lady will be aware that there are court proceedings in relation to that issue that...

Lord Herbert of South Downs | 663 c177 (Link to this contribution)

I rise to support new clause 1 and to agree with everything that the hon. Member for St Helens No...

Angela Eagle | 663 c177 (Link to this contribution)

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that this House has been quite patient on this issue, given t...

Lord Herbert of South Downs | 663 cc177-8 (Link to this contribution)

I agree entirely with the hon. Lady. It was six years ago that this House legislated for equal ma...

Gavin Robinson | 663 c178 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman has outlined a history of events that is not correct. The Northern Irela...

Lord Herbert of South Downs | 663 c178 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman has made his points, and I read yesterday’s debate very carefully this morning...

Lady Hermon | 663 c178 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman outlined the problem in Northern Ireland as one in which those in same-s...

Lord Herbert of South Downs | 663 cc178-9 (Link to this contribution)

I strongly agree with the hon. Lady. This shows that people in Northern Ireland simply do not hav...

Bob Stewart | 663 c179 (Link to this contribution)

I was one of those who stood up and said that they had got it wrong. I got it wrong, and I now su...

Lord Herbert of South Downs | 663 cc179-180 (Link to this contribution)

I commend my hon. Friend for saying once again that he was wrong in opposing the same-sex marriag...

Stella Creasy | 663 cc180-1 (Link to this contribution)

It is a genuine pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Arundel and South Downs (Nick Herber...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 663 c181 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady knows where I stand on this issue, and my position is very different from hers. She...

Stella Creasy | 663 cc181-2 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Gentleman for raising those issues, which are myths that need to be dispelled, a...

Emma Little Pengelly | 663 c182 (Link to this contribution)

You have said many times, and it has caused distress, that a woman in Northern Ireland who is rap...

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 663 c182 (Link to this contribution)

Order. You do not directly address another Member but address your comments through the Chair. Th...

Stella Creasy | 663 c182 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you, Dame Rosie.

It is simply not the case that people have not been prosecuted. A mo...

Stella Creasy | 663 c183 (Link to this contribution)

Forgive me, but I have given way. I am conscious that other people want to speak in this debate. ...

Fiona Bruce | 663 c183 (Link to this contribution)

I find myself in agreement with the concerns expressed by the Chair of the Women and Equalities C...

Huw Merriman | 663 c184 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend recognise that treaty obligations are a matter for Parliament, so this is not...

Fiona Bruce | 663 c184 (Link to this contribution)

I will come on to that point in considerable detail in my speech, if Members will bear with me.

Emma Little Pengelly | 663 c184 (Link to this contribution)

I wish to touch on a point that was raised earlier. Does the hon. Lady agree that things are bein...

Fiona Bruce | 663 cc184-6 (Link to this contribution)

I absolutely agree. If Members will permit me, I will go into detail on those concerns.

Las...

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 663 c186 (Link to this contribution)

Order. Before I call the shadow Minister, colleagues will be aware that a large number of people ...

Karin Smyth | 663 cc186-7 (Link to this contribution)

I shall endeavour to make sure that everyone has time to speak, Dame Rosie.

The Opposition ...

Lady Hermon | 663 c187 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for allowing me to intervene at this early stage of her contributi...

Karin Smyth | 663 cc187-8 (Link to this contribution)

As the hon. Lady knows, Labour was the architect of much of the devolution throughout the United ...

Hannah Bardell | 663 c188 (Link to this contribution)

When we first started to debate these issues, I said to the hon. Member for Walthamstow (Stella C...

Karin Smyth | 663 c188 (Link to this contribution)

I wholeheartedly agree. I commend the hon. Lady and others. Women have travelled here to tell us ...

James Heappey | 663 c188 (Link to this contribution)

I am sure that the hon. Lady is aware that some of the people who have been identified as possibl...

Karin Smyth | 663 c189 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman raises what is a hugely controversial subject, as he knows. I have met some of...

Simon Hoare | 663 c189 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Bristol South (Karin Smyth). Having given a fairly...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 663 c189 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Simon Hoare | 663 cc189-190 (Link to this contribution)

I will not. Having given way many times yesterday, I just want to make my remarks today. The hon....

Sammy Wilson | 663 c190 (Link to this contribution)

There is great dismay in Northern Ireland at the way a Bill described by the Chair of the Select ...

Sammy Wilson | 663 c190 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady says from a sedentary position, “It kind of does.” If it kind of does, why are thos...

Emma Little Pengelly | 663 c191 (Link to this contribution)

Looking around the Chamber, it strikes me that there are a number of people present who were not ...

Sammy Wilson | 663 c191 (Link to this contribution)

And indeed, it is significant that some of those who are saying that they do not wish to see step...

Mhairi Black | 663 c191 (Link to this contribution)

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

Sammy Wilson | 663 cc191-2 (Link to this contribution)

Well, the hon. Lady has just wandered into the Chamber, so I am not going to give way.

The ...

Mhairi Black | 663 c192 (Link to this contribution)

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

Sammy Wilson | 663 c192 (Link to this contribution)

No. I have told the hon. Lady that I am not giving way. Despite the fact that SNP Members have ra...

Gregory Campbell | 663 c192 (Link to this contribution)

In dealing with the overarching issue of the devolution settlement, does my right hon. Friend agr...

Sammy Wilson | 663 cc192-3 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, and the danger is that that has an impact on the talks that we are trying to progress to a s...

Edward Leigh | 663 cc193-4 (Link to this contribution)

I believe that decisions regarding the law on abortion in Northern Ireland should be a matter for...

Huw Merriman | 663 c194 (Link to this contribution)

If that is so, why did Lady Hale say in the Supreme Court, when looking at whether this is incomp...

Edward Leigh | 663 c194 (Link to this contribution)

I am going to deal precisely with that point if my hon. Friend will be patient.

The process...

Emma Little Pengelly | 663 c194 (Link to this contribution)

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

Edward Leigh | 663 cc194-5 (Link to this contribution)

I had better keep going to obey your ruling, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I want to reply to this po...

Diana Johnson | 663 cc195-6 (Link to this contribution)

I rise to speak to amendment 9, which has cross-party support. I was very pleased that the Chair ...

Diana Johnson | 663 cc196-7 (Link to this contribution)

I am going to carry on.

We have heard about the woman who had a self-induced abortion becau...

Jeffrey M Donaldson | 663 c197 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Lady for giving way. On the point about fatal foetal abnormality and the case in...

Diana Johnson | 663 cc197-8 (Link to this contribution)

Today, we are looking at the opportunity we have with this Bill, and I think that most Members of...

Huw Merriman | 663 cc198-9 (Link to this contribution)

I rise to speak in favour of amendment 9, the details of which have just been explained by the ho...

Huw Merriman | 663 c199 (Link to this contribution)

I will take one intervention, given that I have made so many myself.

Emma Little Pengelly | 663 c199 (Link to this contribution)

It is also the case, as we have articulated—we have received thousands of emails from across Nort...

Huw Merriman | 663 c199 (Link to this contribution)

I understand the hon. Lady’s point, because when I visited Northern Ireland I received a few choi...

Huw Merriman | 663 cc199-200 (Link to this contribution)

I said that I would take only one intervention, if the right hon. Gentleman does not mind.

...

Stewart Malcolm McDonald | 663 cc200-1 (Link to this contribution)

It was Lord Palmerston who said that the Schleswig-Holstein question had only ever been understoo...

Vicky Ford | 663 cc201-2 (Link to this contribution)

As Members of Parliament, we often meet people who have suffered deep trauma and have been throug...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 663 cc202-3 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you, Dame Rosie, for giving me the opportunity to speak during the Committee stage of this ...

Emma Little Pengelly | 663 c203 (Link to this contribution)

It is fair to say that we have entered into the substance of some of these issues here today, and...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 663 cc203-4 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes an appropriate point. Either we decide to direct-rule all powers in relation...

Lady Hermon | 663 c204 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Ian Jnr Paisley | 663 c204 (Link to this contribution)

I really do not have time. The hon. Member is a cousin of mine. She knows that I always want to g...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 663 c204 (Link to this contribution)

I really cannot. I always give way to you, and I really cannot.

Lady Hermon | 663 c204 (Link to this contribution)

I think the hon. Gentleman needs to—

Ian Jnr Paisley | 663 cc204-5 (Link to this contribution)

Please.

Unfortunately, the hon. Member for Walthamstow (Stella Creasy) is not here at the m...

Nigel Evans | 663 c205 (Link to this contribution)

I have been an MP for 27 years and I was here for all the devolution legislation. I sat on the Op...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 663 c206 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you, Dame Rosie, for allowing us to make these points. I hope that we will be able to conti...

Paul Masterton | 663 c206 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak, Dame Rosie. I had intended to speak last night ...

Jeffrey M Donaldson | 663 c206 (Link to this contribution)

It is not true to say that devolution does not exist in Northern Ireland. There are 11 district c...

Paul Masterton | 663 cc206-7 (Link to this contribution)

I take the right hon. Gentleman’s point. I think he knows what I mean about that layer of governm...

Gregory Campbell | 663 c207 (Link to this contribution)

I share the hon. Gentleman’s frustration. Does he agree that, if people in Scotland were then tol...

Paul Masterton | 663 cc207-8 (Link to this contribution)

I would be incredibly frustrated by that. I will come on to the point about cherry-picking, which...

Roberta Blackman-Woods | 663 cc208-9 (Link to this contribution)

I rise to support new clause 1, along with amendment 9, tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for K...

Diana Johnson | 663 c209 (Link to this contribution)

I commend my hon. Friend on her perseverance over all these years of campaigning for this. Hopefu...

Roberta Blackman-Woods | 663 cc209-210 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. Friend for those comments.

I want to address some of the comments made by M...

Ged Killen | 663 cc210-1 (Link to this contribution)

I rise to support new clauses 9, 10, 11 and 12 and to speak in favour of new clause 1 on the issu...

Jim Shannon | 663 cc211-3 (Link to this contribution)

It will come as no surprise that I cannot support these amendments. I say that with respect to al...

Gregory Campbell | 663 c213 (Link to this contribution)

I assure my hon. Friend that many people in Northern Ireland will be glad to hear him refer to th...

Jim Shannon | 663 c213 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. Friend for what he says, which is exactly how I and many others feel. I am not af...

Eddie Hughes | 663 c213 (Link to this contribution)

I seem to recall a campaign in Northern Ireland suggesting that 100,000 people were alive because...

Jim Shannon | 663 cc213-4 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention, and what he says is true—it is a fact. Those fig...

Owen Smith | 663 c214 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), who spoke, as he always ...

Paul Girvan | 663 c214 (Link to this contribution)

On what trumps what and what is more important, issues with cross-party support that the Northern...

Owen Smith | 663 cc215-6 (Link to this contribution)

Let me agree with the hon. Gentleman partly. As I shall talk about in a moment, I do believe that...

Bob Stewart | 663 c216 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Owen Smith | 663 c216 (Link to this contribution)

Let me finish this point then I will gladly give way.

My simple plea is that we must not le...

Bob Stewart | 663 c216 (Link to this contribution)

It should not be beyond the wit of man to devise a system where someone who has actually caused d...

Owen Smith | 663 cc216-7 (Link to this contribution)

I agree wholeheartedly with the hon. Gentleman. It should not be beyond the wit of man to create ...

Layla Moran | 663 cc217-8 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Pontypridd (Owen Smith). I rise to speak in suppor...

Eddie Hughes | 663 c218 (Link to this contribution)

My memory might be vague, but my recollection is that the Northern Ireland Assembly itself voted ...

Layla Moran | 663 cc218-9 (Link to this contribution)

That is the point—at the moment, the legislation cannot be pushed through. The Assembly voted and...

Lady Hermon | 663 c219 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady is of course absolutely right. We do not have a functioning Assembly. We have not h...

Layla Moran | 663 c219 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Lady deeply for her intervention, and for her tireless work on this issue.

John Penrose | 663 cc219-220 (Link to this contribution)

This has been a difficult debate because it has laid bare some fundamental differences in approac...

Nicholas Brown | 663 c220 (Link to this contribution)

For the avoidance of any doubt whatsoever, the position is the same on our side.

John Penrose | 663 c220 (Link to this contribution)

That is a rare intervention from an Opposition Whip. I am delighted to hear that, as I am sure La...

Lady Hermon | 663 c220 (Link to this contribution)

I am most grateful to the Minister for giving way so early in his speech. In the light of the unt...

John Penrose | 663 c221 (Link to this contribution)

If the hon. Lady will possess her soul in patience, I will come to that important point later; I ...

Gregory Campbell | 663 c221 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister talks about human rights versus the devolution settlement. Does he agree that what c...

John Penrose | 663 cc221-2 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, I absolutely accept that there is great concern that by creating one list of amendments toda...

Stewart Malcolm McDonald | 663 c223 (Link to this contribution)

Can I check that, despite the technical warnings, which the Minister is probably quite right to i...

John Penrose | 663 c223 (Link to this contribution)

Absolutely. This is also a free-vote issue, so if this passes a vote it will go into law and beco...

John Penrose | 663 c223 (Link to this contribution)

I will give way to my hon. Friend the Member for Chelmsford (Vicky Ford), and then to the hon. Me...

Vicky Ford | 663 c223 (Link to this contribution)

New clause 10 says that the Government should implement the full CEDAW recommendations. The first...

John Penrose | 663 c223 (Link to this contribution)

I am not sure that I have time, but I could go through other technical concerns. That is only one...

Emma Little Pengelly | 663 c223 (Link to this contribution)

Is it not the case that the way in which new clause 10 is drafted is very broad and covers all th...

John Penrose | 663 cc223-4 (Link to this contribution)

As I mentioned in my response to new clause 1, it is entirely probable that it would not be possi...

Edward Leigh | 663 c224 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Minister confirm what I understand from his answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Chel...

John Penrose | 663 c224 (Link to this contribution)

No, I think I can probably reassure my right hon. Friend on that, but I would reaffirm to him tha...

John Penrose | 663 c224 (Link to this contribution)

I will give way once more, and then I really must make progress because I do want to get through ...

Fiona Bruce | 663 c224 (Link to this contribution)

For the sake of clarification, the CEDAW report recommends the repeal of sections 58 and 59 of th...

John Penrose | 663 cc224-5 (Link to this contribution)

As I understand it, if we repealed that, yes it would. However, I think the point has been made e...

Vicky Ford | 663 c225 (Link to this contribution)

Many Members have come into the House who have not had a chance to listen to the longer debate. I...

John Penrose | 663 c225 (Link to this contribution)

Dame Eleanor, I had probably better not try your patience by going through them all. We have acce...

Conor McGinn | 663 c225 (Link to this contribution)

I pay tribute to all those colleagues who have taken part in the debate; it was characterised by ...

Nick Boles | 663 c231 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of order, Dame Rosie. I know we have very important subjects that Members are keen to ...

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 663 c231 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his point of order. As I am sure he will appreciate, this is not r...

Mike Gapes | 663 c231 (Link to this contribution)

Further to that point of order, Dame Rosie. Have either you or Mr Speaker had any indication that...

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 663 c231 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that point of order. The short answer is: no, I have not received ...

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 663 cc235-9 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss:

Clause 2 stand part.

Amendment 14, in cla...

Dominic Grieve | 663 cc239-241 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you, Dame Rosie; it is a pleasure to participate in this debate and to raise with the House...

Layla Moran | 663 c241 (Link to this contribution)

I am extremely grateful to the right hon. and learned Gentleman for giving way. I pay tribute to ...

Dominic Grieve | 663 c241 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with the hon. Lady. The process of debate is the process by which we continuously moderat...

Steve Brine | 663 c242 (Link to this contribution)

I understand why my right hon. and learned Friend is speaking to amendments 15, 16 and 17, and I ...

Dominic Grieve | 663 c242 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, and I will tell my hon. Friend exactly why. First, the amendments work in their own right, s...

Steve Brine | 663 c242 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry; let me phrase it in another way. Do these amendments, if moved and if passed, prevent...

Dominic Grieve | 663 c242 (Link to this contribution)

If all the amendments, including new clause 14, were to be passed, yes, it would prevent this Hou...

Toby Perkins | 663 c242 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. and learned Gentleman is absolutely right that the consequences for Northern Irela...

Dominic Grieve | 663 c242 (Link to this contribution)

I find it very difficult to answer that question. I accept that, because of priorities in this Ho...

Oliver Letwin | 663 c243 (Link to this contribution)

May I just take my right hon. and learned Friend back to the question he was asked a moment or tw...

Dominic Grieve | 663 c243 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, I agree. It is perhaps, as lawyers would say, a moot point, but my view is that because it s...

Victoria Prentis | 663 c243 (Link to this contribution)

As my right hon. and learned Friend knows, I have a great deal of sympathy with his position, but...

Dominic Grieve | 663 c243 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, I do. I agree entirely, and we should try to avoid doing that, but for the reasons that I ha...

Oliver Letwin | 663 c243 (Link to this contribution)

I am very sorry for intervening again, but I think that it may be important later in the other pl...

Dominic Grieve | 663 c244 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, I do agree. That is certainly one of the reasons this should go to the other place. I slight...

Lord Mackinlay of Richborough | 663 c244 (Link to this contribution)

Amendment 17 suggests that a motion be debated in this House and approved. We have seen in the pa...

Dominic Grieve | 663 c244 (Link to this contribution)

If we are seeking ways to find daisy chains, I can assure my hon. Friend that there are probably ...

Gavin Newlands | 663 cc244-5 (Link to this contribution)

I rise to offer the SNP’s support for amendments 14 to 17, which stand in the name of the right h...

Martin Docherty-Hughes | 663 c245 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. and learned Member for Beaconsfield (Mr Grieve) has raised the issue of proroguing...

Gavin Newlands | 663 c245 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend, as per usual, makes a very good point. Obviously, we in the SNP support a written...

Julian Lewis | 663 c246 (Link to this contribution)

I rise to speak in support of amendment 6, which stands in my name and the names of my right hon....

Lady Hermon | 663 c246 (Link to this contribution)

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

Julian Lewis | 663 c246 (Link to this contribution)

Of course I give way to the hon. Lady, just as I did 12 months ago to this day.

Lady Hermon | 663 c246 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful. Since the right hon. Gentleman’s amendment makes reference to “other security...

Julian Lewis | 663 cc246-7 (Link to this contribution)

I am afraid that we have got into a situation where people in Northern Ireland have become, to so...

Emma Little Pengelly | 663 c247 (Link to this contribution)

We have just had the conclusions of the legacy consultation and the release of a summary of the f...

Julian Lewis | 663 c247 (Link to this contribution)

I am so grateful to the hon. Lady, and delighted that I gave way to her, because she has put that...

Bob Seely | 663 c247 (Link to this contribution)

I am most grateful to my right hon. Friend for giving way, and I congratulate him and others on t...

Julian Lewis | 663 c247 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. Friend, who is an expert in these matters, for that perceptive observation. Certa...

Julian Lewis | 663 c247 (Link to this contribution)

I will give way only one more time, as other Members wish to speak.

Lady Hermon | 663 c248 (Link to this contribution)

I am exceedingly grateful to the right hon. Gentleman, who is being very generous indeed. I think...

Julian Lewis | 663 c248 (Link to this contribution)

I am not an expert on the subject, but I think that the numbers at the moment are very low, but t...

James Heappey | 663 c248 (Link to this contribution)

Will my right hon. Friend give way?

James Heappey | 663 c248 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend is very kind. I instinctively agree with the amendment that he has tabled. I...

Julian Lewis | 663 c248 (Link to this contribution)

I thought that by implication I had covered that point. The likelihood is that anyone before the ...

Julian Lewis | 663 c248 (Link to this contribution)

How can I refuse the hon. Gentleman?

David Simpson | 663 c248 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman has made a good point about the letters of comfort. I have to say that t...

Julian Lewis | 663 cc248-9 (Link to this contribution)

That confirms the very point that I was making, and it is why the main purpose of the amendment, ...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 663 cc249-250 (Link to this contribution)

I want to speak to the amendments tabled in my name and those of my right hon. and hon. Friends, ...

Lord Benyon | 663 c250 (Link to this contribution)

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree with me that this is part of an attempt at historical revisio...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 663 c250 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman has put the matter extremely eloquently and concisely, and he is absolut...

Emma Little Pengelly | 663 c250 (Link to this contribution)

Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is deeply frustrating that we have made these arguments t...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 663 c251 (Link to this contribution)

I entirely agree with my hon. Friend, and I pay tribute to the work that she has done in this are...

Michael Fallon | 663 c251 (Link to this contribution)

I hope that the right hon. Member for Belfast North (Nigel Dodds) will forgive me if I do not add...

Hilary Benn | 663 cc251-2 (Link to this contribution)

I rise very briefly to support the amendments moved by the right hon. and learned Member for Beac...

Tony Lloyd | 663 c252 (Link to this contribution)

Let me begin by addressing the issues raised by the right hon. Members for New Forest East (Dr Le...

Julian Lewis | 663 c252 (Link to this contribution)

I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that the ICC, having been set up long after the troubl...

Tony Lloyd | 663 cc252-3 (Link to this contribution)

I did not necessarily automatically assume that the right hon. Gentleman was looking for retrospe...

Emma Little Pengelly | 663 c253 (Link to this contribution)

The shadow Secretary of State started by saying that there cannot be moral equivalence between th...

Tony Lloyd | 663 cc253-4 (Link to this contribution)

I have no difficulty in agreeing with the hon. Lady. The Victims’ Commissioner has sought not to ...

Johnny Mercer | 663 c254 (Link to this contribution)

I ask the hon. Member for Rochdale (Tony Lloyd)—my hon. Friend—to think very carefully about the ...

Sammy Wilson | 663 c255 (Link to this contribution)

Is it not even more grotesque that these former soldiers can be summoned to an inquest or some le...

Johnny Mercer | 663 c255 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. The Ministry of Defence, and this country—our nation, o...

Gavin Robinson | 663 cc255-6 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Moor View (Johnny Mercer), and...

Emma Little Pengelly | 663 c256 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that this provides a really good opportunity for the British Government...

Gavin Robinson | 663 c256 (Link to this contribution)

I agree absolutely, and Members who have followed my contributions on this issue over the past nu...

Mark Francois | 663 c256 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my fellow member of the Defence Committee for giving way. Like him, I believe that it is ...

Gavin Robinson | 663 cc256-7 (Link to this contribution)

That is indeed correct. I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for his intervention, although it w...

Jeffrey M Donaldson | 663 c257 (Link to this contribution)

I just want to add to the point that my hon. Friend is making. We have heard a lot from Oppositio...

Gavin Robinson | 663 c257 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with my right hon. Friend, although in fairness, the comments that we were talking about ...

Fiona Bruce | 663 c257 (Link to this contribution)

I rise briefly to speak to amendments 21 and 22, which are in my name. In relation to the report ...

John Penrose | 663 cc257-260 (Link to this contribution)

I should probably start by formally begging to move that clauses 1 to 4 stand part of the Bill. I...

Emma Little Pengelly | 663 c260 (Link to this contribution)

It is important to highlight what I believe is not an accurate description of the legal position....

John Penrose | 663 c260 (Link to this contribution)

I hope that the commitments I have just made and the words I was able to adduce have reassured th...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 663 c261 (Link to this contribution)

No, no—we do not clap. The hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Diana Johnson) deserves to b...

Lord McLoughlin | 663 c261 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Did the Member who shouted initially say, “Not moved”?...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 663 c261 (Link to this contribution)

I understand the point of order made by a long-serving Chief Whip, who understands these matters ...

Tony Lloyd | 663 c261 (Link to this contribution)

For clarification, Madam Deputy Speaker, the amendment is moved formally. [Interruption.]

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 663 cc261-6 (Link to this contribution)

Order. No, we are having no confusion on this matter. We are starting this matter

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