UK Parliament / Open data

Northern Ireland (Regional Rates and Energy) (No. 2) Bill

Debate on bills on Wednesday, 6 March 2019, in the House of Commons, led by Karen Bradley. The answering members were Tony Lloyd and John Penrose.
Ordered, various provisions applying to the proceedings on the Bill, including a programme motion. Second reading. Agreed to on question. Bill committed to a Committee of the Whole House.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

655 cc1009-1051 

Session

2017-19

Legislative stage

Second reading

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber
Northern Ireland (Regional Rates and Energy) (No. 2) Bill 2017-19
Friday, 1 March 2019
Research briefings
Northern Ireland (Regional Rates and Energy) (No. 2) Bill 2017-19
Thursday, 28 February 2019
Bills
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

Karen Bradley | 655 c1009 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

I rise to ask the House to give a S...

Gavin Robinson | 655 c1009 (Link to this contribution)

The Secretary of State will recall that during the passage of the Northern Ireland (Executive For...


Show all contributions (97)
Karen Bradley | 655 c1009 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Gentleman for raising that important issue. It is clear that the derogation need...

Gavin Robinson | 655 c1009 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful for that response. I understand that the legislation is there and is ready to ...

Karen Bradley | 655 cc1009-1010 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman may have more information than me. All I can say is that we know the Northern ...

Lord Coaker | 655 c1010 (Link to this contribution)

The Secretary of State outlined the percentage rise in the regional rate. I will say something ab...

Karen Bradley | 655 c1010 (Link to this contribution)

Throughout the whole budgetary process, we have ensured that we have liaised with the main partie...

Maria Caulfield | 655 c1010 (Link to this contribution)

The retailers organisation, Retail NI, has expressed disappointment at the rates, and has argued ...

Karen Bradley | 655 c1010 (Link to this contribution)

I understand the concerns that have been raised; I have met Retail NI and others. Clearly, we are...

Chris Elmore | 655 c1010 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Secretary of State for giving way; she is being very generous with her time....

Karen Bradley | 655 c1011 (Link to this contribution)

What we are doing today is setting the rate. We are not setting any of the reliefs or allowances ...

Lady Hermon | 655 c1011 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Secretary of State for allowing me to intervene. I have received a large num...

Karen Bradley | 655 c1011 (Link to this contribution)

I will come on to the details of why the decisions have been taken, the advice that we have recei...

Jeffrey M Donaldson | 655 c1011 (Link to this contribution)

The Secretary of State will be aware of our concern that there has been a lack of proper scrutiny...

Karen Bradley | 655 c1012 (Link to this contribution)

As I said, this situation has resulted from a decision by the European Commission on state aid ru...

Conor McGinn | 655 c1012 (Link to this contribution)

While we await the findings of the inquiry, would the Secretary of State agree that whoever’s fau...

Karen Bradley | 655 c1012 (Link to this contribution)

As I say, I have enormous sympathy for people in this situation. I have met the Ulster Farmers Un...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 655 c1012 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Secretary of State for at least acknowledging how grossly unfair this is to many peop...

Karen Bradley | 655 c1012 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his comments. I will come on to the detail of the renewable heat m...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 655 c1012 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Secretary of State for going into the detail. She mentions the 12% rate of return. Wh...

Karen Bradley | 655 c1013 (Link to this contribution)

We cannot easily compare schemes: there are different set-up costs and fuel costs in different pa...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 655 c1013 (Link to this contribution)

The Secretary of State says there are different set-up costs, but under state aid rules that is n...

Karen Bradley | 655 c1013 (Link to this contribution)

There are differences in fuel costs and transport costs. There are differences between different ...

Maria Caulfield | 655 c1013 (Link to this contribution)

I understand why there has to be a change, but for farmers who have borrowed £250,000 or £500,000...

Karen Bradley | 655 c1013 (Link to this contribution)

That is why a buy-out scheme is available: so that boiler owners can choose individually. I canno...

Karen Bradley | 655 c1013 (Link to this contribution)

I do want to make some progress, but I recognise that many interests are involved. I will give wa...

Sammy Wilson | 655 c1013 (Link to this contribution)

Does the Secretary of State accept, first, that the terms of the buy-out scheme are not clear and...

Karen Bradley | 655 c1013 (Link to this contribution)

I will now give way to the hon. Member for Belfast East.

Gavin Robinson | 655 c1014 (Link to this contribution)

The Secretary of State talked about a 12% rate of return. She knows that participants in the sche...

Karen Bradley | 655 c1014 (Link to this contribution)

As I have said, the figures will all be individual, and it is impossible for me to give the hon. ...

Karen Bradley | 655 c1014 (Link to this contribution)

I was about to conclude, but I will give way to the hon. Gentleman, because he is irresistible.

Gavin Robinson | 655 c1014 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful to the Secretary of State. She says that I am irresistible; how could I disagr...

Karen Bradley | 655 c1014 (Link to this contribution)

As I have said, these are the measures that we need to take now to ensure that the scheme remains...

Tony Lloyd | 655 cc1014-5 (Link to this contribution)

The Bill is in many ways an abuse of the processes of the House. I hope that the Minister will ta...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 655 c1015 (Link to this contribution)

I appreciate the shadow Secretary of State making those kind and glowing references to Ballymena....

Tony Lloyd | 655 cc1015-7 (Link to this contribution)

Like the hon. Gentleman, I very much welcome this piece of good news, but it has to be set agains...

Maria Caulfield | 655 c1017 (Link to this contribution)

The shadow Secretary of State is making some good points. The financial difference is stark, beca...

Tony Lloyd | 655 c1017 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady makes a valid point. Obviously, it is not a small difference; in fact, it is a huge...

Alistair Carmichael | 655 c1017 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with much of what the hon. Gentleman is saying. The purported purpose of this legislation...

Tony Lloyd | 655 c1018 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right, and to the extent that some of those affected were ...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 655 c1018 (Link to this contribution)

The shadow Secretary of State is absolutely right. Apparently, this morning, at the High Court in...

Tony Lloyd | 655 cc1018-9 (Link to this contribution)

That seems logical, but—I am not a lawyer, so the hon. Gentleman will forgive me if I am not righ...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 655 c1019 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his generosity in giving way. Is it not a fact that the weight of ...

Tony Lloyd | 655 c1019 (Link to this contribution)

I am not being generous with my time because we have to tease out these important issues, and we ...

Lady Hermon | 655 c1019 (Link to this contribution)

It is crucial that we tease out the details before we give our approval—if we give our approval—t...

Tony Lloyd | 655 c1019 (Link to this contribution)

That is a fair point. There is nothing in this Bill that talks about post-legislative scrutiny. W...

Maria Caulfield | 655 c1019 (Link to this contribution)

The clause 4 powers to instigate the buy-out arrangements are to be exercised only in the period ...

Tony Lloyd | 655 cc1019-1020 (Link to this contribution)

That has to be right. We have a duty to ensure not only that we dispatch the legislation where it...

Emma Little Pengelly | 655 c1020 (Link to this contribution)

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that, as far as we are aware, senior civil servants do have the power...

Tony Lloyd | 655 c1020 (Link to this contribution)

A guarantee that everybody in the health service receives the same uprate as their opposite numbe...

Emma Little Pengelly | 655 c1021 (Link to this contribution)

Whenever that legislation was discussed by the House, it was very much part of the context that i...

Tony Lloyd | 655 c1021 (Link to this contribution)

It may be helpful to deliver that kind of guidance. The problem we all have to face is that, in t...

Andrew Murrison | 655 cc1021-2 (Link to this contribution)

These are unusual times for Northern Ireland and this is an unusual Bill. It is difficult to avoi...

Alistair Carmichael | 655 c1022 (Link to this contribution)

Does that not go to the heart of the matter? The existence of a voluntary buy-out scheme seems an...

Andrew Murrison | 655 cc1022-4 (Link to this contribution)

I share the right hon. Gentleman’s concerns in that respect. As a lawyer, he will know better tha...

Gavin Newlands | 655 c1024 (Link to this contribution)

I rise to speak briefly in this Bill on devolved Northern Ireland business. The hon. Member for S...

Maria Caulfield | 655 cc1024-6 (Link to this contribution)

The reason we are here is that the Assembly has not been sitting for over two years now. There ar...

Sammy Wilson | 655 cc1026-8 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Lewes (Maria Caulfield). I thank her for her genui...

Maria Caulfield | 655 c1028 (Link to this contribution)

It strikes me, as an MP who is still fairly new in this place, that the attitude is often, “It’s ...

Sammy Wilson | 655 cc1028-1030 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady makes her point well, as she did in her speech.

Not everyone abused the schem...

Sammy Wilson | 655 c1029 (Link to this contribution)

I knew that that would get the hon. Lady going.

Maria Caulfield | 655 c1029 (Link to this contribution)

May we ask the Minister if—when we leave the EU on 29 March—we could look again at the subsidy is...

Sammy Wilson | 655 c1029 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with the hon. Lady. One of the reasons why we need scrutiny of the legislation, even afte...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 655 c1029 (Link to this contribution)

Before I call the next hon. Gentleman to speak, I have to announce the result of today’s six defe...

Lord Coaker | 655 cc1029-1031 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson), who, apart from ...

Paul Girvan | 655 c1031 (Link to this contribution)

The regional rate will make up roughly 46% of the overall domestic rate in household bills from A...

Lord Coaker | 655 cc1031-3 (Link to this contribution)

That is an interesting point. The hon. Gentleman has shared with the House another important piec...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 655 c1033 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman has put his finger on a number of issues. We have been told that it is the leg...

Lord Coaker | 655 cc1033-4 (Link to this contribution)

I cannot really add to what the hon. Gentleman has said, other than to agree with it. That sums i...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 655 cc1034-9 (Link to this contribution)

It is good to follow the hon. Member for Gedling (Vernon Coaker). When he said, “Where there’s a ...

Sammy Wilson | 655 c1035 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend not think it is rather ironic that we have had all these debates in the House...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 655 c1035 (Link to this contribution)

The consequences of and ripples out from this are so significant. It is not about cheap energy; i...

Jim Shannon | 655 cc1035-1042 (Link to this contribution)

It is always a pleasure to speak in this House at any time, whether it be first or last—whatever ...

Karin Smyth | 655 cc1042-3 (Link to this contribution)

During the wind-ups, it is customary to say that we have had a wide-ranging debate, but we have n...

John Penrose | 655 cc1043-4 (Link to this contribution)

I will try to address a series of specific points that various Members have made during the cours...

Sammy Wilson | 655 c1044 (Link to this contribution)

Does the Minister agree that it is rather ironic that a scheme that is meant to decarbonise—for s...

John Penrose | 655 cc1044-5 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman said that he was not quite sure why burning wood was any better than bur...

Lady Hermon | 655 c1045 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister needs to address the point raised by a number of right hon. and hon. Members about t...

John Penrose | 655 cc1045-6 (Link to this contribution)

I am very happy to address that point. There is one thing that I know a number of people have fou...

John Penrose | 655 c1046 (Link to this contribution)

I will come to the hon. Gentleman in a minute, if I may.

I remind Members that although the...

John Penrose | 655 c1046 (Link to this contribution)

I will take interventions in a moment, but I want to finish this point.

The costs are paid ...

Jim Shannon | 655 c1046 (Link to this contribution)

I gave the example of one of my constituents, whose legitimate expectation was to have repayments...

John Penrose | 655 c1046 (Link to this contribution)

Some people will have done very well out of this scheme, but I think the House will have a great ...

Tony Lloyd | 655 c1047 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful that the Minister is being so generous with his time. None of us has any brief for ...

John Penrose | 655 c1047 (Link to this contribution)

I am delighted to be able to set the record straight. I think that I have already mentioned this,...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 655 c1047 (Link to this contribution)

I appreciate that the Minister is making the case that has been given to him by the Department, b...

John Penrose | 655 c1048 (Link to this contribution)

We will have to come back to the question of how to get more evidence into the room, as it were, ...

Lady Hermon | 655 c1048 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister, in response to a number of interventions, has repeatedly relied on data and detaile...

John Penrose | 655 cc1048-9 (Link to this contribution)

There is an old saying that if you want something to be kept secret, you announce it on the Floor...

Lady Hermon | 655 c1049 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister said that the figures have been published. What I would really like are the calculat...

John Penrose | 655 c1050 (Link to this contribution)

I think the answer to the hon. Lady’s question is yes. I have not actually seen the figures—the o...

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