I strongly thank the hon. Lady for her helpful remarks, which correct the record.
I thought that giving a direct answer to the question posed by the right hon. Member for Hemel Hempstead (Sir Mike Penning) was the direct answer. I am not quite sure what more I can do to amplify no, when no means no. Nevertheless, I am always happy to continue to debate these issues. This debate, by its nature, is not necessarily the most appropriate time, but we will continue the conversation anywhere, any time, within reason.
Importantly, I want to refer to the very imaginative amendment tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Walthamstow (Stella Creasy). The right hon. Member for Hemel Hempstead said that he agreed with nearly every word she uttered; I agree with every word. It is important to say that, because there are issues of practical humanity involved. I have met Sarah Ewart and other women from Northern Ireland who have sought the safe, legal abortion that women in the rest of the United Kingdom hopefully take for granted, whatever criticisms we make of our health service. That is really important, because the devastation caused to people’s lives by their inability to access things that are taken for granted elsewhere ought to be brought to a conclusion.
People have different views. I am well aware that people in this Chamber have different views on the issues of equal marriage and abortion, but these are basic issues of human rights. It is right and proper that my hon. Friend the Member for Walthamstow has raised these issues tonight, because they need airing.
I will not repeat everything that my hon. Friend said, but any woman who loses a wanted baby is already part of an individual tragedy and a familial tragedy, and many people in this House will know that from their personal experience. For a woman who conceives in hope but finds that the baby she conceives is born, sadly, to die is an immense tragedy. For that to then be compounded by an inability to seek the help and basic guidance that I hope members of my family and people living in the rest of the United Kingdom take for granted is not a tragedy; it is a disgrace. My hon. Friend is absolutely right.
There is an irony in this, as the hon. Member for North Down (Lady Hermon) pointed out. Our Supreme Court’s decision was interesting. It was not a judgment, because the Court was not capable of making a judgment, but its analysis and recommendation was absolutely unambiguous as to where the law stands. Nobody can doubt what the Supreme Court said. However, the odd thing is that the Supreme Court’s judgment was a narrow one. It said in that case that the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission had no competence to take the case forward. Because it was taken on behalf of a real human being, it now falls back on that individual to refight the case through the lower courts, with all the time that will take and all the personal trauma it will cause. In the meantime, many other women will, of course, be denied access to safe and legal abortions that would be available anywhere else.
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In that context, we have to recognise something fundamental in the Supreme Court’s judgment, and it comes down to two things. It is interesting that the Secretary of State has rightly indicated—I congratulate her on this—that she will now reform the law to give the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission the locus to take cases through the court process in the way that it has not been allowed to do in the past. I hope we can see early resolution of that, which we look forward to, and she is right to do it.
The judgment also sharpens the focus on something else very specific. The Supreme Court judgment was a judgment not about the Stormont process, but about the compatibility of the United Kingdom with our obligations under the European convention on human rights. Since the United Kingdom is in breach of its obligations, the necessary process to exculpate us from that particular critique is a UK one. We can hide behind devolution, but that is not appropriate. If we prefer, we can hide instead behind the narrowness of the fact that the Court could not make this a judgment. However, one way or the other, we know what the judgment would be, and we know that this is for the UK. If the Secretary of State wants to refer this to her colleagues in the Government, I think we would all be very happy with that in order to see progress made by a different Department, if that is the right way forward.
I will make the Secretary of State an offer, because this is really important. I know that the Government are in an interesting relationship with the DUP at the moment, and I know that most of the DUP Members will not agree with any attempt to reform the laws with respect to safe and legal abortion in Northern Ireland. For our part, Labour guarantees that we would support any move towards providing safe and legal abortion for women in Northern Ireland. That gives the Government the guarantee on any step forward. In any case, this would almost certainly be done on the basis of a free vote, because that has been the tradition in the House on these issues. However, the official position of the Labour party would be to support the Government in taking those steps. This is a challenge to the Secretary of State—I understand that—but it is a challenge on which we will support her if she is prepared to take it on. Let me say that the same would apply to the question of equal marriage.