UK Parliament / Open data

Courts and Tribunals (Judiciary and Functions of Staff) Bill [Lords]

Debate on bills and Legislative Grand Committee proceedings (HC) on Wednesday, 12 December 2018, in the House of Commons, led by Yasmin Qureshi. The answering members were Lucy Frazer and Imran Hussain.
Report stage. Amendments debated. Amendment 2 negatived on division (246 to 308). Amendment 5 negatived on division (243 to 312). Report stage completed. Sitting suspended for certification of the Bill. House resolved itself into the Legislative Grand Committee (England and Wales). Motion that the House sit in private. Not accepted by the Chair. Consent motion resolved. Occupant of the Chair left the Chair to report the decision of the Committee. Deputy Speaker resumed the Chair, decision reported. Third reading. Agreed to on division (302 to 233). Bill passed, with amendments.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

651 cc307-343 

Session

2017-19

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber

Proceeding contributions

John Bercow | 651 c307 (Link to this contribution)

I should inform the House that I have selected the amendments on the amendment paper—although the...

Yasmin Qureshi | 651 c307 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move amendment 1, in page 3, line 28, leave out subsection 3 and insert—

“(3) A st...


Show all contributions (88)
John Bercow | 651 c307 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 2, in the schedule, pag...

Yasmin Qureshi | 651 c308 (Link to this contribution)

I rise to speak in support of amendment 1 and the other amendments. We are being encouraged to wa...

John Howell | 651 c308 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Lady comment on whether the qualification provision will raise the bar significantl...

Yasmin Qureshi | 651 c308 (Link to this contribution)

We are talking about two different things. The authorised persons are to have delegated to them m...

Jim Cunningham | 651 c309 (Link to this contribution)

One reason we need proper scrutiny is the tendency towards rationalisation of the courts, which e...

Yasmin Qureshi | 651 c309 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is spot on. That is one of our concerns about the Government’s proposals.

We...

Kevin Hollinrake | 651 c309 (Link to this contribution)

We are talking about taxpayers’ money. Does the hon. Lady not accept that where such tasks are ro...

Yasmin Qureshi | 651 c309 (Link to this contribution)

These people will be performing judicial tasks and functions and so will need to be appropriately...

James Cartlidge | 651 c309 (Link to this contribution)

It is my understanding that these are mainly interlocutory functions, not actual judgments or sig...

Yasmin Qureshi | 651 cc309-310 (Link to this contribution)

No, as we understand it, although it is envisaged that some of these tasks will be procedural, ot...

Andy Slaughter | 651 c310 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We discussed this in Committee. Interlocutory case management...

Yasmin Qureshi | 651 c310 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. Friend, a former shadow Justice Minister, for his intervention, and I take his po...

Robert Neill | 651 c310 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady referred to the independence of the judges. Is not the whole virtue of this proposa...

Yasmin Qureshi | 651 c310 (Link to this contribution)

The procedure rule committee obviously has a place in our judicial system, and we accept that jud...

Alex Chalk | 651 c310 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady is getting perilously close to suggesting that judges will do justice when they are...

Yasmin Qureshi | 651 c310 (Link to this contribution)

We are not suggesting that judges will somehow not be independent. As I have said, I have the hig...

Yasmin Qureshi | 651 cc311-3 (Link to this contribution)

I have taken a number of interventions, and I will make some progress now. Otherwise we will be g...

Robert Neill | 651 cc313-4 (Link to this contribution)

I hope I shall make a better stab at my speech than I did of being a Teller earlier.

I rise...

James Cartlidge | 651 c314 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend speaks with great expertise. What he is saying goes back to the point raised earli...

Robert Neill | 651 cc314-5 (Link to this contribution)

That is precisely right. It is inconceivable that any Lord Chief Justice would give his or her co...

Louise Haigh | 651 cc315-7 (Link to this contribution)

I rise briefly to speak in favour of the amendments tabled by my Front-Bench colleagues. I believ...

Lucy Frazer | 651 c317 (Link to this contribution)

It is an honour to take this Bill through its final stages. I should like to start by addressing ...

Neil O'Brien | 651 c317 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. and learned Friend is making an important point. In 2010, this country faced its largest ...

Lucy Frazer | 651 c317 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes an important point that has a number of aspects. First, my Department had to...

Robert Neill | 651 cc317-8 (Link to this contribution)

Is this not also important in the context of the speech by Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd in the other p...

Lucy Frazer | 651 c318 (Link to this contribution)

That is an important point. Our justice system is renowned throughout the world, thanks to its fl...

Kevin Hollinrake | 651 c318 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister makes a good point about our duty to the taxpayer. Irrespective of this nation’s fin...

Lucy Frazer | 651 c318 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend and, indeed, Mr Deputy Speaker have campaigned hard about the closure of their loc...

Robert Neill | 651 c318 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. and learned Friend is being most generous in giving way. Does she also recognise that mod...

Lucy Frazer | 651 c318 (Link to this contribution)

That is an important point, because when we talk about what we have saved, we often mean what has...

Simon Hoare | 651 c318 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. and learned Friend the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justic...

Lucy Frazer | 651 c319 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes an important point, and I also represent a rural area. Interestingly, some o...

Simon Hoare | 651 c319 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Minister give way on that point?

Lucy Frazer | 651 c319 (Link to this contribution)

I will take one intervention and then address the amendments.

Simon Hoare | 651 c319 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful. Can we read across from what my hon. and learned Friend says that she is making st...

Lucy Frazer | 651 c319 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a second important point, which is that we cannot roll out and continue to u...

Neil O'Brien | 651 c319 (Link to this contribution)

Further to the important point made by my hon. Friend the Member for North Dorset (Simon Hoare) a...

Lucy Frazer | 651 cc319-320 (Link to this contribution)

I mentioned earlier that 300,000 people have already started engaging with our services online. T...

Neil O'Brien | 651 c320 (Link to this contribution)

Members on both sides of the House would agree that we have a world-renowned judiciary. In fact, ...

Lucy Frazer | 651 c321 (Link to this contribution)

That is absolutely right. As a former barrister, I appeared regularly before experienced judges, ...

Kevin Hollinrake | 651 c321 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. and learned Friend mentioned the fine work done by magistrates. Is there any way we could...

Lucy Frazer | 651 c321 (Link to this contribution)

Magistrates undertake a significant number of roles, and they have vital responsibilities. In fac...

James Cleverly | 651 c321 (Link to this contribution)

I declare an interest, as my wife is currently going through the process to become a magistrate. ...

Lucy Frazer | 651 c321 (Link to this contribution)

I am pleased to hear that Mrs Cleverly is undertaking this important role. My hon. Friend is righ...

Simon Hoare | 651 cc321-2 (Link to this contribution)

Everything I do is short, Mr Deputy Speaker.

We are all, thank God, living longer. At some ...

Lindsay Hoyle | 651 c322 (Link to this contribution)

Order. We need to move on now. I was very generous before, but magistrates have absolutely nothin...

Lucy Frazer | 651 c322 (Link to this contribution)

I am happy to come on to the three reasons why amendments 2 to 4 cannot be accepted. First, the a...

James Cartlidge | 651 c322 (Link to this contribution)

There are many people in the Chamber with huge legal expertise. All I can claim is spending my ye...

Lucy Frazer | 651 c322 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes an important point. Not only is it important to ensure that the qualificatio...

Kevin Foster | 651 c323 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister is outlining well the position under the current regulations. Does she agree, theref...

Lucy Frazer | 651 c323 (Link to this contribution)

That is the heart of the Government’s position, and it takes me neatly on to my second point. The...

Kevin Hollinrake | 651 c323 (Link to this contribution)

This is an important point. Will my hon. and learned Friend come on to address not only the human...

Lucy Frazer | 651 c323 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, those are important points. A large number of people already carry out these important roles...

Neil O'Brien | 651 c323 (Link to this contribution)

Progressive politicians on both sides of the House believe in labour market progression; they bel...

Lucy Frazer | 651 cc323-4 (Link to this contribution)

That is an important point. Some people are already carrying out these functions and doing them w...

Robert Neill | 651 c324 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. and learned Friend will know, and perhaps she will confirm, that the way this works in pr...

Lindsay Hoyle | 651 c324 (Link to this contribution)

Order. Minister, come on. And you have had three speeches already, Bob, you don’t need to stretch...

Lucy Frazer | 651 c324 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend, the Chair of the Select Committee, was making an important point. The rule commit...

Lindsay Hoyle | 651 c324 (Link to this contribution)

Order. Some might think it is very important—[Interruption.] Order. Would the Minister like to si...

Lucy Frazer | 651 cc324-7 (Link to this contribution)

I hope that more will put in to speak on this important subject. I wish to pick up on what my hon...

Yasmin Qureshi | 651 c325 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Amendme...

Lindsay Hoyle | 651 c325 (Link to this contribution)

I have now to announce the result of the deferred Division on the question relating to the Indepe...

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 651 cc325-336 (Link to this contribution)

Consideration completed. I will now suspend the House for no more than 5 minutes in order to make...

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 651 c336 (Link to this contribution)

I can now inform the House that I have completed certification of the Bill, as required by the St...

Lucy Frazer | 651 c336 (Link to this contribution)

indicated assent.

The House forthwith resolved itself into the Legislative Grand Committee ...

David Linden | 651 c336 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That the Committee sit in private.

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 651 c336 (Link to this contribution)

I am afraid I cannot accept that motion because the hon. Gentleman is not a member of the Committ...

David Linden | 651 c336 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of order, Dame Rosie. I am grateful for your indulgence. Can you clarify that the reas...

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 651 c336 (Link to this contribution)

The point is that the Legislative Grand Committee represents Members of Parliament from England a...

David Linden | 651 c336 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Before we return from the Legislative Grand Committee,...

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 651 c337 (Link to this contribution)

I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman has rather missed his chance.

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 651 c337 (Link to this contribution)

No, I am afraid you did not. I am very sorry.

Third Reading

3.54 pm

Lucy Frazer | 651 c337 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.

This is a small and technical Bill...

Imran Hussain | 651 cc337-340 (Link to this contribution)

I, too, thank all hon. Members who have participated in the proceedings on the Bill today and thr...

Keith Vaz | 651 c339 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is making a powerful speech, and I agree with everything he has said. There is one...

Imran Hussain | 651 c339 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend is a distinguished parliamentarian and, as ever, makes a really important po...

Robert Neill | 651 c339 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Bradford East (Imran Hussain). We have had a const...

Imran Hussain | 651 c339 (Link to this contribution)

I want to make it absolutely clear that—as I am sure the hon. Gentleman, who is Chair of the Just...

Robert Neill | 651 c341 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Gentleman for what he has said, and I entirely accept the intentions behind it. ...

Andy Slaughter | 651 cc341-2 (Link to this contribution)

Let me begin by saying that it was indeed a pleasure to serve on the Bill Committee, not least be...

John Howell | 651 cc342-3 (Link to this contribution)

I spoke on Second Reading and pointed out the extent to which the courts were undergoing reform. ...

Julian Knight | 651 c343 (Link to this contribution)

I commend my hon. Friend the Member for Henley (John Howell) on his excellent speech.

It wa...

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