UK Parliament / Open data

Northern Ireland Budget Bill

Debate on bills and Committee of the Whole House (HC) on Monday, 13 November 2017, in the House of Commons, led by Chloe Smith and James Brokenshire. The answering members were Stephen Pound and Owen Smith.
Second reading. Agreed to on question. Bill committed to a Committee of the Whole House. Committee stage. Clauses 1 to 8 agreed to. Schedules 1 and 2 agreed to. Bill reported, without amendment. Third reading. Agreed to on question. Bill passed.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

631 cc59-119 

Session

2017-19

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber
Northern Ireland Budget Bill
Monday, 13 November 2017
Research briefings
Northern Ireland Budget Bill 2017-19
Monday, 13 November 2017
Bills
House of Commons
Deposited Paper DEP2018-0276
Monday, 13 November 2017
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House of Commons
Deposited Paper DEP2018-0275
Monday, 13 November 2017
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House of Commons

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Proceeding contributions

James Brokenshire | 631 c59 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

Before I explain the details of the...

Jeffrey M Donaldson | 631 c59 (Link to this contribution)

My colleagues and I echo the Secretary of State’s comments about the incident that took place in ...


Show all contributions (149)
James Brokenshire | 631 cc59-60 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for making that point, and for drawing attention to the...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 631 c60 (Link to this contribution)

I echo the Secretary of State’s comments on the civil service and the role it plays. Will he make...

James Brokenshire | 631 c60 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point about the accountability gap we have at present. At t...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 631 c60 (Link to this contribution)

The Secretary of State is well known for being generous in giving way, and I thank him. He has hi...

James Brokenshire | 631 c61 (Link to this contribution)

As the hon. Gentleman will know, that is not a step that I intend to take while there is an oppor...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 631 c61 (Link to this contribution)

Following on from the point made by the hon. Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley), I would like ...

James Brokenshire | 631 c61 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman has made this point on a previous occasion. I understand the question of...

Sammy Wilson | 631 c61 (Link to this contribution)

The Secretary of State has expressed some optimism and does not wish to appoint direct rule Minis...

James Brokenshire | 631 c61 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, we are in the position that we are in today because it has not been possible to form an Exec...

Alistair Carmichael | 631 c62 (Link to this contribution)

The Secretary of State is right to say that it is necessary to pass this Bill in order for the ma...

James Brokenshire | 631 cc62-3 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with the right hon. Gentleman on accountability. The difficult job that the Northern Irel...

David Simpson | 631 c63 (Link to this contribution)

The Secretary of State says that only 95% of the budget was allocated. My understanding is that t...

James Brokenshire | 631 c63 (Link to this contribution)

I understand the political point that the hon. Gentleman is making, and he highlights the challen...

James Brokenshire | 631 c63 (Link to this contribution)

I will give way to the hon. Lady, because I have already given way to the right hon. Gentleman.

Emma Little Pengelly | 631 c63 (Link to this contribution)

The Secretary of State references the fact that there is no budget because there is no Executive ...

James Brokenshire | 631 cc63-4 (Link to this contribution)

I welcome the insight and experience that the hon. Lady brings to this House from her time in the...

Jeffrey M Donaldson | 631 c64 (Link to this contribution)

The Secretary of State speaks of frustrations. The difficulty is that this is not just a matter o...

James Brokenshire | 631 c64 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for highlighting the real life impacts of historical in...

Conor McGinn | 631 c64 (Link to this contribution)

I echo the words of the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson), because my...

James Brokenshire | 631 c64 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman makes a powerful and important point about the impact on victims, but nothing ...

Owen Smith | 631 c65 (Link to this contribution)

I hesitate to intervene, as I am about to make a speech, but I seek further clarity on this point...

James Brokenshire | 631 c65 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point, but it presupposes that there is broad agreement on ...

James Brokenshire | 631 c65 (Link to this contribution)

I am talking about all the recommendations contained in it. My understanding is that we do not ha...

Owen Smith | 631 c65 (Link to this contribution)

It is clear that there is cross-party support for the Hart report recommendations—certainly for t...

James Brokenshire | 631 c65 (Link to this contribution)

I am sure David Sterling will hear keenly what is being said across the House today on the points...

James Brokenshire | 631 cc66-7 (Link to this contribution)

I am going to make some progress if I may. I have been generous in taking interventions, as I hop...

Lord Coaker | 631 c67 (Link to this contribution)

I just seek to understand the figures that the Secretary of State has given out, and this relates...

James Brokenshire | 631 c67 (Link to this contribution)

I say to the hon. Gentleman that what we are actually dealing with here is the full utilisation o...

James Brokenshire | 631 c68 (Link to this contribution)

I am happy to try again with the hon. Gentleman.

Lord Coaker | 631 c68 (Link to this contribution)

I think there is probably only one person in the House who properly understood all of that, and I...

James Brokenshire | 631 c68 (Link to this contribution)

As I indicated to the hon. Gentleman, we are effectively talking about a sum of £10.6 billion for...

Andrew Murrison | 631 c68 (Link to this contribution)

May I take this opportunity to chide my right hon. Friend ever so gently? Had right hon. and hon....

James Brokenshire | 631 c68 (Link to this contribution)

I understand the point that the Chair of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee makes. Equally, t...

Sammy Wilson | 631 c68 (Link to this contribution)

Does the Secretary of State accept that, even taking into account the information in those schedu...

James Brokenshire | 631 c69 (Link to this contribution)

The details were published in the main estimates document that has been published as a Command Pa...

Gavin Robinson | 631 c69 (Link to this contribution)

The Secretary of State and I had a discussion on this point earlier, but can he confirm that the ...

James Brokenshire | 631 c69 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman and I did have a conversation outside the House before we entered the Chamber,...

Sammy Wilson | 631 c69 (Link to this contribution)

I accept the Secretary of State’s explanation. Of course this is not the ideal way to deal with t...

James Brokenshire | 631 c70 (Link to this contribution)

Although there is not a functioning Executive—in other words, we do not have the First Minister a...

Lady Hermon | 631 c71 (Link to this contribution)

The Secretary of State will know that, for family reasons, we have had a very difficult weekend. ...

James Brokenshire | 631 c71 (Link to this contribution)

If the hon. Lady will bear with me, I intend to say something about that issue later in my commen...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 631 c71 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful to the Secretary of State for giving way and for announcing today the first in...

James Brokenshire | 631 c72 (Link to this contribution)

As the right hon. Gentleman will know, we recognise the particular case that has been made by Nor...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 631 c72 (Link to this contribution)

The Secretary of State has previously indicated—quite rightly—that this matter should be addresse...

James Brokenshire | 631 cc72-3 (Link to this contribution)

This point has been raised on the Floor of the House before. The right hon. Gentleman makes a pow...

Conor McGinn | 631 c73 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Secretary of State give way?

James Brokenshire | 631 c73 (Link to this contribution)

I will give way later, but I am just going to finish my comments.

Together with the Irish G...

Owen Smith | 631 cc73-4 (Link to this contribution)

I join the Secretary of State in condemning the actions of the people who left a viable pipe bomb...

Lady Hermon | 631 c74 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman has signalled his support for the Bill. Will he also signal to the House his s...

Owen Smith | 631 cc74-5 (Link to this contribution)

With the greatest respect to the hon. Lady, that is a slightly separate issue from those we are d...

Sammy Wilson | 631 c75 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Gentleman accept that it is easy to blame the Secretary of State or the civil serva...

Owen Smith | 631 cc75-6 (Link to this contribution)

I have no idea what the hon. Gentleman is referring to in terms of a connection between the Labou...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 631 c76 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is making the point that commenced this debate: from tonight, there is effecti...

Owen Smith | 631 c76 (Link to this contribution)

I accept the point the hon. Gentleman makes—that the NICS is currently effectively unaccountable ...

Conor McGinn | 631 c76 (Link to this contribution)

Can we be clear about this? The alternative to a functioning Executive and Assembly is not a cons...

Owen Smith | 631 c76 (Link to this contribution)

I would not put it exactly like that, but my hon. Friend is right to say that we are in untried, ...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 631 c76 (Link to this contribution)

The shadow Secretary of State knows my personal commitment to devolution. I would love to see it ...

Owen Smith | 631 c77 (Link to this contribution)

I am encouraged to hear the hon. Gentleman remind the House of his support for devolution. I remi...

Jeffrey M Donaldson | 631 c77 (Link to this contribution)

As a veteran of many talks processes, I urge caution on the part of the hon. Gentleman about the ...

Owen Smith | 631 c78 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman is right, of course, that the Secretary of State is not exclusively—or, ...

Jeffrey M Donaldson | 631 c78 (Link to this contribution)

I appreciate the point that the hon. Gentleman is making. However, we have indicated, in our will...

Owen Smith | 631 c78 (Link to this contribution)

I am not sure that that is entirely fair. As I said, in the absence of a nationalist voice in thi...

Owen Smith | 631 c78 (Link to this contribution)

If the right hon. Gentleman wants to tell me that we will make progress on that and that the pros...

Jeffrey M Donaldson | 631 c78 (Link to this contribution)

What I am going to say to the hon. Gentleman is that for me and my constituents, health and educa...

Owen Smith | 631 cc78-9 (Link to this contribution)

I would not disagree with that. I am sure that that is the view of constituents from all parts of...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 631 c79 (Link to this contribution)

I support my hon. Friend’s comments. He will know that I was one of the last direct rule Minister...

Owen Smith | 631 cc79-80 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my right hon. Friend for his remarks, because he speaks with real, lived experience of th...

Karin Smyth | 631 c80 (Link to this contribution)

Surely the importance of the Prime Minister bothering to visit Northern Ireland is that it would ...

Owen Smith | 631 cc80-1 (Link to this contribution)

I think that people in Northern Ireland will not understand why their Prime Minister—the Prime Mi...

Jeffrey M Donaldson | 631 c81 (Link to this contribution)

I understand where the hon. Gentleman is coming from, but if the Secretary of State were to act o...

Owen Smith | 631 cc81-2 (Link to this contribution)

I understand the right hon. Gentleman’s point—indeed, I mentioned the political disagreement. Equ...

James Brokenshire | 631 c82 (Link to this contribution)

I point the hon. Gentleman firmly towards our proposals on customs and agriculture, as well as on...

Owen Smith | 631 c82 (Link to this contribution)

None of those proposals has been taken remotely seriously by our interlocutors in Brussels. None ...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 631 c82 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman spell out his party’s Northern Ireland policy? In order to avoid the hard...

Owen Smith | 631 c82 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with the EU that it is absolutely essential that we avoid a hard border on the island of ...

Andrew Murrison | 631 c82 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Gentleman recognise, as the Northern Ireland Committee found out on its recent visi...

Owen Smith | 631 c82 (Link to this contribution)

I will give way to my hon. Friend and then I will respond to the hon. Member for South West Wilts...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 631 c82 (Link to this contribution)

Order. The hon. Gentleman has to do one and then the other.

Owen Smith | 631 cc82-3 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker; I stand corrected.

In no way, shape or form should we dama...

Conor McGinn | 631 c83 (Link to this contribution)

Of course there is a very simple way to meet the DUP’s stated objectives—two objectives I share—o...

Owen Smith | 631 c83 (Link to this contribution)

I have some sympathy with that very interesting idea, but I am not sure that it is entirely withi...

Andrew Murrison | 631 cc83-4 (Link to this contribution)

I very much welcome the remarks made by the hon. Member for Pontypridd (Owen Smith) and my right ...

Maria Caulfield | 631 c85 (Link to this contribution)

The Northern Ireland Affairs Committee heard a couple of weeks ago from the Chief Constable about...

Andrew Murrison | 631 c85 (Link to this contribution)

I certainly share the concern about long-term planning. In general, we do such planning through t...

Emma Little Pengelly | 631 c85 (Link to this contribution)

I declare an interest in that my husband is the permanent secretary of the Department of Health i...

Andrew Murrison | 631 c86 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady is absolutely right. That is what I mean by kicking the can down the road. Those de...

Lord Swire | 631 c86 (Link to this contribution)

On the Department of Health—this could also apply to other Departments—is my hon. Friend concerne...

Andrew Murrison | 631 c86 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend, who served in a distinguished way in the Northern Ireland Office, knows tha...

Lord Coaker | 631 c86 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman has made interesting comments about direct rule and some of its dangers. Does ...

Andrew Murrison | 631 cc86-7 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, who is right on two counts. First, my Committee is mindful o...

Bob Stewart | 631 c87 (Link to this contribution)

I also sit on the Committee, and in support of my hon. Friend’s comments, I point out that we are...

Andrew Murrison | 631 c87 (Link to this contribution)

Absolutely. My hon. Friend tempts me down a path, with which you might have some issue, Madam Dep...

Lord Swire | 631 c87 (Link to this contribution)

I am interested to learn of the work of my hon. Friend’s Committee, which becomes more important ...

Andrew Murrison | 631 cc87-8 (Link to this contribution)

Yes. I share the concerns of many about Northern Ireland’s voice at this time. Northern Ireland i...

Maria Caulfield | 631 c88 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend not think it is particularly important that the voice of the nationalist comm...

Andrew Murrison | 631 cc88-9 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, I really do. Although it is of course Sinn Féin’s choice not to take its seats here—one that...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 631 c89 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman talks, from his esteemed position as Chair of the Northern Ireland Affairs Com...

Andrew Murrison | 631 c89 (Link to this contribution)

I very much agree with the right hon. Gentleman. [Interruption.] It is sort of a cop out, if he w...

Lady Hermon | 631 c89 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman for allowing me to intervene, particularly as he is draw...

Andrew Murrison | 631 cc89-90 (Link to this contribution)

I look forward to Mr Trevor Reaney’s conclusions and it would be wrong to pre-empt them, but we w...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 631 cc90-1 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for South West Wiltshire (Dr Murrison). I am sure we w...

Gregory Campbell | 631 c91 (Link to this contribution)

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the failure of the Sinn Féin Finance Minister in the Assembl...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 631 cc91-2 (Link to this contribution)

Many people in Northern Ireland, not only Unionists but commentators, particularly in the Irish R...

Lord Swire | 631 c92 (Link to this contribution)

If my right hon. Friend’s thesis is right and Sinn Féin has no desire to return to power sharing ...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 631 c92 (Link to this contribution)

I am saying that many people believe that. I am told by Sinn Féin leaders—we hear it constantly —...

Bob Stewart | 631 c92 (Link to this contribution)

My personal view is that Sinn Féin does not give a damn and wants to destroy the entire concept o...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 631 c92 (Link to this contribution)

I hear what the hon. Gentleman says, but I have to say that the last 10 years, during which time ...

Deidre Brock | 631 c92 (Link to this contribution)

One measure still available to the Secretary of State is to call another election. What would the...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 631 cc92-3 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady raises an interesting point. As things stand—under current legislation—the Secretar...

Lady Hermon | 631 c93 (Link to this contribution)

I wonder if the right hon. Gentleman could just clarify an interesting point: he and his colleagu...

Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 631 cc93-4 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady raises an interesting question. Certainly, the Irish Prime Minister has had somethi...

Owen Paterson | 631 cc94-6 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Belfast North (Nigel Dodds). I endorse his c...

Maria Caulfield | 631 c95 (Link to this contribution)

Will my right hon. Friend give way?

Owen Paterson | 631 cc95-7 (Link to this contribution)

No, as others want to speak.

It is simply not fair on the civil service to expect it to del...

Deidre Brock | 631 cc97-8 (Link to this contribution)

First, I want to make clear my support for the Secretary of State’s comments regarding the PSNI a...

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 631 c98 (Link to this contribution)

Order. To be absolutely sure that everybody has the opportunity to speak, I impose a time limit o...

Nigel Mills | 631 cc98-100 (Link to this contribution)

I hope not to get too close to that time limit.

I also rise to support the Bill, although i...

Sammy Wilson | 631 c99 (Link to this contribution)

The Secretary of State has indicated the process by which the Bill has come before us tonight. We...

Lady Hermon | 631 c99 (Link to this contribution)

Is it not the case that Sinn Féin has opted out since the Brexit decision? It has played on that ...

Sammy Wilson | 631 cc99-102 (Link to this contribution)

That brings me to my next point. The Secretary of State must be clear about Sinn Féin’s strategy....

Alan Mak | 631 cc102-4 (Link to this contribution)

I join the Secretary of State and the shadow Secretary of State in condemning the actions of thos...

Jim Shannon | 631 c104 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to speak in this debate. The Secretary of State is not currently here, but I tha...

David Simpson | 631 c105 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend has raised a number of points about different Departments. Does he agree that it i...

Jim Shannon | 631 cc105-7 (Link to this contribution)

I congratulate my hon. Friend on his hard work on the Select Committee on Environment, Food and R...

Emma Little Pengelly | 631 cc107-9 (Link to this contribution)

I wish to make some short remarks. What we are doing today is necessary, but this is a deeply dis...

Jeffrey M Donaldson | 631 cc109-111 (Link to this contribution)

I commend my hon. Friend the Member for Belfast South (Emma Little Pengelly) for setting out so c...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 631 cc110-3 (Link to this contribution)

I have had the opportunity to make a number of interventions throughout this evening’s debate, so...

Gregory Campbell | 631 c113 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that it is supremely ironic that the decisions taken over the past few ...

Ian Jnr Paisley | 631 cc113-4 (Link to this contribution)

I agree that it is a case of “Brits in”, but of course the British have never left, and could nev...

Stephen Pound | 631 cc114-5 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley) has given a powerful coda to what has been, as tho...

Stephen Pound | 631 c115 (Link to this contribution)

I will happily give way to my party friend and colleague.

Baroness Hoey | 631 c115 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my party friend and colleague. He said something about Labour being there, and I wondered...

Stephen Pound | 631 cc115-6 (Link to this contribution)

Time is short tonight, Madam Deputy Speaker. There are things that I could say, and there are thi...

Chloe Smith | 631 cc116-8 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Member for Ealing North (Stephen Pound) for his sober words, and for his party’s...

Conor McGinn | 631 c117 (Link to this contribution)

There has been little or no discourse tonight about the desire of all of us to see devolution res...

Chloe Smith | 631 c117 (Link to this contribution)

We have spent significant time on the future of devolution and what the next steps should be. Tha...

Lord Coaker | 631 c117 (Link to this contribution)

The debate has been good; there is general good will across the House towards Northern Ireland. T...

Chloe Smith | 631 cc117-9 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for that intervention. Several options remain under close consideration. My right h...

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