UK Parliament / Open data

Wales Bill

Committee stage first day. Amendment 5 to clause 1 negatived on division (41 to 270). Amendment 7 to clause 1 negatived on division (217 to 274). Clauses 1 to 7 agreed to. Schedule 4 agreed to. Clause 8, debated with New clauses 2 and 3, agreed to. Clauses 9 to 15 agreed to with clause 10 agreed to on division (294 to 228). Amendment 11 to clause 16 negatived on division (181 to 285). Clause 16 agreed to on division (285 to 7). Clauses 17 to 21 agreed to. Schedule 3 agreed to. Progress reported.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

612 cc760-841 

Session

2016-17

Department

Wales Office

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber
Wales Bill 2016-17
Tuesday, 7 June 2016
Bills
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

Liz Saville Roberts | 612 c761 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move amendment 17, page 1, leave out lines 5 to 9 and insert—

“In section 1 of the...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 612 cc761-2 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 8, page 1, leave out li...


Show all contributions (122)
Liz Saville Roberts | 612 cc765-6 (Link to this contribution)

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lefarydd. Nineteen years have passed since the 1997 referendum to establi...

Mark Williams | 612 c767 (Link to this contribution)

Like the hon. Lady, I am a member of the Select Committee on Welsh Affairs, and I can back up, to...

Liz Saville Roberts | 612 c767 (Link to this contribution)

I agree entirely with the hon. Gentleman. The sheer weight of that evidence underlines the fact t...

Jonathan Edwards | 612 c767 (Link to this contribution)

Amendment 5 is very well worded, if I may say so, because it was drafted, word for word, by the L...

Liz Saville Roberts | 612 c767 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with my hon. Friend. I would expect there to be some concordance between both points of v...

Paul Flynn | 612 c767 (Link to this contribution)

What the hon. Lady has said is entirely fair, but we must come to a practical conclusion. It is c...

Liz Saville Roberts | 612 cc767-8 (Link to this contribution)

It is unfortunate to hear that argument in relation to standing up for Wales. On the one hand we ...

Susan Elan Jones | 612 c768 (Link to this contribution)

There is a conciliatory note in what the hon. Lady says. In this great new world of conciliation,...

Liz Saville Roberts | 612 cc768-9 (Link to this contribution)

I am sure we will work together when it is for the best for Wales, but I understand that that is ...

David TC Davies | 612 cc769-770 (Link to this contribution)

I begin by genuinely welcoming the two new members of the Opposition Front-Bench team. One, the h...

Chris Davies | 612 c770 (Link to this contribution)

I am delighted to hear my hon. Friend’s comments, and one always listens to every word he says. D...

David TC Davies | 612 c770 (Link to this contribution)

There was no mechanism but there was a second referendum a few years later. I forget the percenta...

Nick Thomas-Symonds | 612 cc770-1 (Link to this contribution)

I will speak in favour of amendments 9, 7 and 10. It is always a pleasure to follow my constituen...

Hywel Williams | 612 c771 (Link to this contribution)

In his research, has the hon. Gentleman come across figures for how many cases are held in Wales ...

Nick Thomas-Symonds | 612 c771 (Link to this contribution)

At the moment, anyone who issues a claim would have a choice about where to issue it. For example...

Jonathan Edwards | 612 c771 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman will be aware that Scotland and Northern Ireland have their own separate legal...

Nick Thomas-Symonds | 612 cc771-2 (Link to this contribution)

I am not disagreeing with those on my Front Bench—I have made it clear that we are looking for a ...

Liz Saville Roberts | 612 c772 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the current situation, whereby issues or disagreements about t...

Nick Thomas-Symonds | 612 c772 (Link to this contribution)

Of course we would all like the Supreme Court to be used far less to resolve conflict between the...

Nia Griffith | 612 cc772-3 (Link to this contribution)

I rise to support amendment 7, to reaffirm my support for the Bill, and to thank the Secretary of...

Mark Williams | 612 cc773-4 (Link to this contribution)

It is a privilege to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Laing. I reiterate my support for the ame...

Mark Williams | 612 c774 (Link to this contribution)

I will stand corrected if that is actually the case. I am seeking clarification and it looks like...

Alun Cairns | 612 c774 (Link to this contribution)

I can absolutely confirm that an invitation was sent to the Welsh Government some weeks ago. We h...

Mark Williams | 612 cc774-5 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister for that update. That should create some food for thought at the ot...

Paul Flynn | 612 c775 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Member for Ceredigion (Mr Williams) ended on a sombre note. Wales Bills are not just for...

Jonathan Edwards | 612 c776 (Link to this contribution)

I honestly mean it when I say that I warmly welcome the hon. Gentleman to his post. He is a man o...

Paul Flynn | 612 c776 (Link to this contribution)

We will not be supporting amendment 5, because we think it gesture politics; unless the Governmen...

Kevin Brennan | 612 c776 (Link to this contribution)

I also recommend my hon. Friend’s book, “Dragons led by Poodles”, and thank him for what he said ...

Paul Flynn | 612 cc776-8 (Link to this contribution)

I agree entirely with my hon. Friend. In my book, which begins with a dramatis personae, I awarde...

Guto Bebb | 612 cc778-780 (Link to this contribution)

I join hon. Members in welcoming the hon. Members for Newport West (Paul Flynn) and for Swansea E...

Jonathan Edwards | 612 c780 (Link to this contribution)

There has, of course, been a material change in conditions, following the events of the last few ...

Guto Bebb | 612 cc780-1 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is a passionate speaker and a strong advocate for his position. In a debate in...

David TC Davies | 612 c781 (Link to this contribution)

Does the Minister also accept that Hywel Dda was very well known for the importance he placed on ...

Guto Bebb | 612 cc781-2 (Link to this contribution)

I appreciate that there are quite a few experts on Hywel Dda in this place. It is certainly the c...

Mark Williams | 612 c782 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Minister clarify—I am sure that he is on the verge of doing so—the time frame for the jo...

Guto Bebb | 612 cc782-3 (Link to this contribution)

It is currently envisaged that the group will report in the autumn, and, as things stand, that is...

Stephen Doughty | 612 c783 (Link to this contribution)

So that the public can understand the divergence that has, to a limited degree, taken place so fa...

Guto Bebb | 612 cc783-6 (Link to this contribution)

That is a good question, because it highlights the importance of ensuring that people in Wales un...

Liz Saville Roberts | 612 cc784-7 (Link to this contribution)

I am very grateful for the opportunity to close this debate, Sir Alan. I will restrict my comment...

Nick Thomas-Symonds | 612 c787 (Link to this contribution)

It was not so much speculation as experience that I was drawing upon. My point was not about lawy...

Liz Saville Roberts | 612 c787 (Link to this contribution)

That very question is dealt with across the land border between Scotland and England. There is al...

Alan Meale | 612 c796 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 28, in clause 6, page 7...

John Penrose | 612 cc796-8 (Link to this contribution)

Clauses 5 to 7 deal with elections to the Assembly and local government elections in Wales. Claus...

Stephen Doughty | 612 c798 (Link to this contribution)

To clarify, if Assembly Ministers have the ability to change the provisions about the registratio...

John Penrose | 612 c798 (Link to this contribution)

As the hon. Gentleman will be aware, we already run two very heavily overlapping but subtly diffe...

Stephen Doughty | 612 c798 (Link to this contribution)

It helps to clarify things in one respect, but does the Minister not accept that there could end ...

John Penrose | 612 c799 (Link to this contribution)

There has been a difference for many years between local election registers and parliamentary ele...

Geraint Davies | 612 c799 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister seems to be saying that the Welsh Government should have the right to displace coinc...

John Penrose | 612 c799 (Link to this contribution)

I fear that I was not clear enough. I am saying that there are explicit provisions in the Bill to...

Geraint Davies | 612 c799 (Link to this contribution)

On the second point, one question would be whether a month is long enough. It would seem to me th...

John Penrose | 612 cc799-800 (Link to this contribution)

I am not saying what the hon. Gentleman fears I am saying. I can reassure him on that. The power ...

Hywel Williams | 612 cc800-1 (Link to this contribution)

I apologise to the Committee for my voice today. My daughter Enlli came back from nursery the oth...

John Penrose | 612 c801 (Link to this contribution)

Can the hon. Gentleman expand on his thinking about why those changes would be helpful? There are...

Hywel Williams | 612 c801 (Link to this contribution)

I have considered that, and it is my opinion and that of the Presiding Officer that it would not ...

Jonathan Edwards | 612 c801 (Link to this contribution)

Is it not the case that under the Bill as drafted, the Welsh Government could act unilaterally if...

Hywel Williams | 612 cc801-2 (Link to this contribution)

I take my hon. Friend’s point entirely. The four Assembly elections held so far have not produced...

John Penrose | 612 c802 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Gentleman for laying out his case so clearly and so helpfully. He is right to po...

Jonathan Edwards | 612 c802 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister for the tone of his reply and for his clarification. Having read up...

John Penrose | 612 cc802-3 (Link to this contribution)

If the hon. Gentleman is not already in his party’s Whips Office, he probably should be, because ...

Hywel Williams | 612 c803 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move amendment 32, in clause 8, page 10, line 3, leave out subsections (5) and (6).

<...
John Bercow | 612 cc803-6 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Clause 8 stand part.

Clause...

Hywel Williams | 612 cc806-8 (Link to this contribution)

I rise to speak to amendments 32, 33 and 38 to 45. My hon. Friends will seek to catch your eye la...

Glyn Davies | 612 cc808-810 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you, Sir Alan, for calling me to speak on this hugely important Bill. The work leading up t...

Susan Elan Jones | 612 cc810-1 (Link to this contribution)

I speak in support of amendment 11 on income tax powers. I am interested in much of the Bill, but...

Glyn Davies | 612 c811 (Link to this contribution)

Let me clarify my view on that. We should not be in a position where we never have a Labour Gover...

Susan Elan Jones | 612 c811 (Link to this contribution)

It does not much matter what I or the hon. Gentleman think—it has far more to do with what the el...

Liz Saville Roberts | 612 c811 (Link to this contribution)

I rise to speak against clause 10 and the imposition of an obligation on the Assembly to undertak...

Mark Williams | 612 c812 (Link to this contribution)

I share the hon. Lady’s concerns over clause 10. In many ways the Bill includes a welcome approac...

Liz Saville Roberts | 612 c812 (Link to this contribution)

It is also being imposed on the Assembly through its own Standing Orders. In that same spirit, su...

Stephen Doughty | 612 c812 (Link to this contribution)

I wish to speak on clause 16 and the referendum on income tax powers. I preface my remarks by say...

David TC Davies | 612 c813 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the citizens of Switzerland and Norway are Europeans and may b...

Stephen Doughty | 612 cc813-4 (Link to this contribution)

I am not going to be taken down that rabbit hole. I want to concentrate on the details of the Bil...

Jonathan Edwards | 612 c814 (Link to this contribution)

I rise primarily to speak to new clauses 2 and 3 in the name of my hon. Friends the Members for A...

Stephen Doughty | 612 c814 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman and I disagree on many issues, but on this we are in firm agreement. I have he...

Jonathan Edwards | 612 c815 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for that intervention. I think that we can move swiftly on this in Wales and build ...

Mark Williams | 612 c815 (Link to this contribution)

Did the hon. Gentleman also detect from polls in the last fortnight a healthy appetite among 16 a...

Jonathan Edwards | 612 c815 (Link to this contribution)

That is another valid dimension. It was clear that the younger generations were very much in favo...

Albert Owen | 612 c815 (Link to this contribution)

A consensus seems to be growing here on 16 and 17-year-olds having the vote. Rather than Wales mi...

Jonathan Edwards | 612 c815 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for that intervention, and what the hon. Gentleman says will be part of the debate ...

Jo Stevens | 612 c815 (Link to this contribution)

Does not the hon. Gentleman agree that civic responsibility is a good thing per se? Rather like j...

Jonathan Edwards | 612 cc815-6 (Link to this contribution)

I appreciate that intervention, and the National Assembly has, of course, legislated on that basi...

Wayne David | 612 c816 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Gentleman not accept that, in the interests of democracy and effective representati...

Jonathan Edwards | 612 c816 (Link to this contribution)

I fear that we are getting into a debate about PR, and my party is strongly of the view that we n...

Albert Owen | 612 c816 (Link to this contribution)

Speaking as someone who was involved in the first referendum, I know that this was a big issue. I...

Jonathan Edwards | 612 cc816-8 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for that intervention. The people of Wales will listen to what politicians have sai...

Susan Elan Jones | 612 c817 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is in full flight, but would he continue to support all those moves if the net...

Jonathan Edwards | 612 c817 (Link to this contribution)

In what sense would it make Wales poorer? I am more confused by the Labour position the more Labo...

Wayne David | 612 c819 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman not accept the fundamental and basic point that unfortunately Wales is a ...

Jonathan Edwards | 612 c819 (Link to this contribution)

That is a damning indictment of the current situation. I have faith in my own people and my own c...

Stephen Doughty | 612 c819 (Link to this contribution)

I have great faith in the Welsh people as well, and I have a lot of faith in the Welsh Labour Gov...

Jonathan Edwards | 612 cc819-820 (Link to this contribution)

The powers as envisaged do not involve the complete block grant. The block grant—the total money ...

Nia Griffith | 612 c820 (Link to this contribution)

I shall speak to several amendments, in particular amendment 11, which provides that income tax p...

Stephen Doughty | 612 c820 (Link to this contribution)

I wholeheartedly agree with the point about the potential trap for Wales. Does my hon. Friend sha...

Nia Griffith | 612 c821 (Link to this contribution)

I very much agree with my hon. Friend. It is even more serious than that because many jobs depend...

Baroness Chapman of Darlington | 612 c821 (Link to this contribution)

I regret to inform my hon. Friend that the situation is worse than she describes, because when sp...

Nia Griffith | 612 c821 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend confirms my very worst fears. Instead of having needs-based funding, the average c...

Lord Davies of Gower | 612 cc822-3 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you, Mr Gray, for giving me the opportunity to speak about the Bill today. I am delighted t...

Albert Owen | 612 cc823-4 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship once again, Mr Gray. Many points that I was goi...

James Davies | 612 cc824-5 (Link to this contribution)

With regret, I stand to oppose clause 16, which relates to the removal of the requirement for a r...

Chris Davies | 612 cc825-6 (Link to this contribution)

Last week, I had the great pleasure of congratulating the hon. Member for Newport West (Paul Flyn...

Albert Owen | 612 c826 (Link to this contribution)

I heard the hon. Gentleman speak on Second Reading and I am sure he is going to repeat a lot of w...

Chris Davies | 612 c826 (Link to this contribution)

I may consider it, but at the moment I am thinking about going further, with deep regret, and loo...

David Jones | 612 cc826-7 (Link to this contribution)

I apologise for the fact that I was not here at the beginning of the consideration of this group ...

Paul Flynn | 612 cc827-830 (Link to this contribution)

The opening words of the splendid book I referenced earlier are:

“Only the future is certai...

Alun Cairns | 612 cc830-1 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship in this important debate, Mr Gray.

In ope...

Glyn Davies | 612 c831 (Link to this contribution)

Does the Secretary of State agree that it is outrageous for those organisations supporting the We...

Alun Cairns | 612 c831 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes an extremely important point. A broad consensus has developed on the Welsh l...

Susan Elan Jones | 612 c831 (Link to this contribution)

Does that mean we will have a fully bilingual Welsh Grand Committee? I am just hoping.

Alun Cairns | 612 c831 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady knows that the Welsh Grand Committee is fully bilingual when it sits in Wales, but ...

Alun Cairns | 612 cc831-2 (Link to this contribution)

I am not going to give way, because there are many technical amendments I need to cover and I wan...

Hywel Williams | 612 c832 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Secretary of State for that response and will listen to the rest of his spee...

Alun Cairns | 612 cc832-4 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman makes an extremely important point that demonstrates the maturity of the debat...

David Jones | 612 c835 (Link to this contribution)

Will my right hon. Friend explain what extraordinary event has happened in the past 14 months to ...

Alun Cairns | 612 c835 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for his intervention. I was about to go on to say that two ...

David Jones | 612 c835 (Link to this contribution)

Does my right hon. Friend not accept that the significant difference is that very many more peopl...

Alun Cairns | 612 cc835-6 (Link to this contribution)

I remind my right hon. Friend that a similar number of people who pay income tax also pay council...

Hywel Williams | 612 c836 (Link to this contribution)

We have had a wide-ranging debate, including on issues not really to do with the lead amendment. ...

Hywel Williams | 612 c836 (Link to this contribution)

We have had a wide-ranging debate, including on issues not really to do with the lead amendment. ...

Legislation

Wales Bill 2016-17
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