UK Parliament / Open data

Cities and Local Government Devolution Bill [Lords]

Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bills on Tuesday, 17 November 2015, in the House of Commons.
Committee stage (second day). Clause 20, disagreed to on division (188 to 283). Clauses 21 and 23-24, ordered to stand part. New clause 34 read a second time and added to the Bill. New clause 36, disagreed to on division (186 to 282). Clauses 22, 25 and Schedule 4, as amended, ordered to stand part. Title, amendment made. Progress reported.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

602 cc554-643 

Session

2015-16

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber

Show all related items (6)
The Government's Cities and Local Government Devolution Bill.
Tuesday, 10 November 2015
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons
Deposited Paper DEP2016-0004
Tuesday, 3 November 2015
Deposited papers
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

David Crausby | 602 c555 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Clause 21 stand part.

New c...

Lord Wharton of Yarm | 602 cc555-6 (Link to this contribution)

I look forward to an interesting discussion this afternoon. I hope it will be similar in tone to ...


Show all contributions (158)
Mark Field | 602 c556 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with the Government’s view—I do not think the voting age should be lowered at all—but wil...

Lord Wharton of Yarm | 602 c556 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend tempts me to go off topic. The European Union Referendum Bill has had a debate on ...

Norman Lamb | 602 c556 (Link to this contribution)

The Secretary of State has at least indicated that there is a debate to be had about lowering the...

Lord Wharton of Yarm | 602 c556 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman can speculate on whether the Secretary of State might agree or not. I ca...

Graham Allen | 602 c556 (Link to this contribution)

Does the Minister understand that there is a lot of desire to see an extension of participation i...

Lord Wharton of Yarm | 602 c556 (Link to this contribution)

I admire the creativity of hon. Members who wish to find ways to pursue this matter. I do not fee...

John Redwood | 602 c557 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Minister confirm that we did not place in our manifesto any wish to change the voting ag...

Lord Wharton of Yarm | 602 c557 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend makes a very important point. Conservative Members did not stand on that pro...

Lord Wharton of Yarm | 602 c557 (Link to this contribution)

I would like to make a little progress and then I will give way to more hon. Members who want to ...

John Stevenson | 602 c557 (Link to this contribution)

Does the Minister agree that if we were to go down the route of 16 to 17-year-olds having the vot...

Lord Wharton of Yarm | 602 c557 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a very important point. There is a need for a joined-up approach in such mat...

Mark Field | 602 c558 (Link to this contribution)

I very much agree with what the Minister says, particularly the way in which he has enunciated it...

Lord Wharton of Yarm | 602 c558 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend tempts me to go further down the path of debating the specifics of different ages,...

Lord Wharton of Yarm | 602 c558 (Link to this contribution)

I will give way to the right hon. Gentleman, but then I really must move on.

Norman Lamb | 602 c558 (Link to this contribution)

How does the Minister, who accepts that there is a debate to be had, intend to facilitate that de...

Lord Wharton of Yarm | 602 c558 (Link to this contribution)

I recognise what the right hon. Gentleman says, but this debate has been ongoing for some time in...

Karin Smyth | 602 c559 (Link to this contribution)

On behalf of all parties in Bristol, I am grateful for the recommendation to retain clause 21, wh...

Lord Wharton of Yarm | 602 c559 (Link to this contribution)

Absolutely. That reflects the consensus we are trying to build around the Bill. Ours are the very...

Susan Elan Jones | 602 c559 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister has spoken about consensus. Of course, one issue, connected with the Bill, on which ...

Lord Wharton of Yarm | 602 cc559-561 (Link to this contribution)

I hear the hon. Lady’s comments, although I am not sure to which clause we are here to debate she...

Liz McInnes | 602 c561 (Link to this contribution)

I am glad to hear that the Government are in listening mode. I am pleased about clause 21, but I ...

John Redwood | 602 c561 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Lady remind us why during 13 years in office up to 2010, Labour, which had big majo...

Liz McInnes | 602 cc561-2 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his question. Sometimes pressure needs to build up before ch...

John Stevenson | 602 c562 (Link to this contribution)

Logically, if 16-year-olds have the vote, they should clearly be entitled to stand as candidates ...

Liz McInnes | 602 c562 (Link to this contribution)

The Power commission did not recommend that 16-year-olds should become candidates, but rather tha...

Imran Hussain | 602 c562 (Link to this contribution)

During my election campaign, I spoke to hundreds of young people who were not only enthused by th...

Liz McInnes | 602 c562 (Link to this contribution)

I think my hon. Friend is absolutely right. The 16-year-olds I know and speak to are very keen on...

Liz McInnes | 602 cc563-4 (Link to this contribution)

I accept that young people cannot do all those things at 16 without the consent of their parents,...

Norman Lamb | 602 c564 (Link to this contribution)

I strongly support the amendment that was passed in the House of Lords, and I am very disappointe...

Mark Field | 602 cc564-5 (Link to this contribution)

In fairness, I think that I should clarify my position. I am against the idea of reducing the vot...

Norman Lamb | 602 c565 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with the right hon. Gentleman that this is an important issue, but I hope he will underst...

Graham Stringer | 602 c565 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman has made some fair points about the analysis of participation in the Sco...

Norman Lamb | 602 c565 (Link to this contribution)

I accept that it was a highly unusual event in terms of the degree of excitement and enthusiasm t...

Mark Field | 602 c565 (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps we are more sanguine about the events of 18 September 2014 with hindsight. It might have ...

Norman Lamb | 602 c566 (Link to this contribution)

I was on the same side as the right hon. Gentleman in the referendum. I am half Scottish, and I p...

Alison Thewliss | 602 c566 (Link to this contribution)

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that it is precisely because 16 and 17-year-olds had the bigg...

Norman Lamb | 602 c566 (Link to this contribution)

I think that is absolutely right, and indeed that is why I also think they should have a vote in ...

Guto Bebb | 602 c566 (Link to this contribution)

Surely that argument makes little sense? My daughter, for example, is currently saving up to buy ...

Norman Lamb | 602 cc566-7 (Link to this contribution)

No, I am referring of course to the application of income tax to people’s employment rights. To t...

Mark Field | 602 c567 (Link to this contribution)

I entirely agree that inter-generational unfairness is a major issue that all of us in the politi...

Norman Lamb | 602 c567 (Link to this contribution)

I think there is a progressive struggling to get out. I can tell that the right hon. Gentleman wa...

Jim Cunningham | 602 c567 (Link to this contribution)

I am sure that, like me, the right hon. Gentleman meets many sixth-formers when he visits schools...

Norman Lamb | 602 c567 (Link to this contribution)

I agree, and I think it is condescending in the extreme to suggest that someone aged 17 is not ca...

Mark Field | 602 c567 (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps this would-be progressive could have a stab at answering that point. I do not think that ...

Norman Lamb | 602 c568 (Link to this contribution)

I accept that where we draw the line is arbitrary to a degree, but I would tempt the right hon. G...

Andrew Turner | 602 c568 (Link to this contribution)

I am very glad to have the opportunity to raise the rights of local residents where there is some...

Alison Thewliss | 602 c569 (Link to this contribution)

I rise to speak in support of the comments made on this side of the House about votes for those a...

John Stevenson | 602 c569 (Link to this contribution)

I am looking for a bit of consistency in the argument for reducing the voting age for 16 and 17-y...

Alison Thewliss | 602 cc569-570 (Link to this contribution)

There would be public health concerns relating to the alcohol question, and those are entirely di...

Andrew Turner | 602 c570 (Link to this contribution)

May I ask what would happen in single wards? All but one of the wards in my constituency are sing...

Alison Thewliss | 602 cc570-1 (Link to this contribution)

I appreciate that English local government is complex and has lots of different examples. In Scot...

John Stevenson | 602 c571 (Link to this contribution)

On that point about elected mayors, does the hon. Lady believe that the great cities of Scotland ...

Alison Thewliss | 602 c571 (Link to this contribution)

People are not generally calling for that in Scotland. There has not been that tradition there.

Alison Thewliss | 602 c571 (Link to this contribution)

If people wanted to hold such referendums, that would be absolutely fine. Lots of councils in Sco...

Chloe Smith | 602 cc571-2 (Link to this contribution)

I shall make a few brief points about this part of the Bill. I spoke in an earlier debate, in whi...

Lord Wharton of Yarm | 602 c572 (Link to this contribution)

Although we do not necessarily agree on where this issue should go, I sense that we agree that if...

Chloe Smith | 602 c572 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with the Minister, but perhaps I may put the question back to him, as the right hon. Memb...

Alison Thewliss | 602 c572 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Lady accept that in the absence of any other Bill, strategy or proposals for bringi...

Chloe Smith | 602 c572 (Link to this contribution)

I am interested in that argument. Although it is for the Minister to give the real answer on that...

John Stevenson | 602 c572 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with my hon. Friend that this is not the right forum for the discussion on reducing the v...

Chloe Smith | 602 c572 (Link to this contribution)

I agree entirely. In fact, the next section of my notes tells me to acknowledge the points made b...

Norman Lamb | 602 c573 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady cautioned against creating a patchwork of rights, yet of course the process the Gov...

Chloe Smith | 602 c573 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman tempts me to join him in the Lobby, but I would only further trash his r...

Steve Reed | 602 c573 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Lady recognise that it is in the nature of British constitutional reform that it te...

Chloe Smith | 602 cc573-4 (Link to this contribution)

Having been a Minister with responsibility for constitutional reform, I know well that it is ofte...

Graham Allen | 602 cc574-6 (Link to this contribution)

I am surprised, but delighted, to follow the hon. Member for Norwich North (Chloe Smith). She is ...

John Stevenson | 602 c576 (Link to this contribution)

I hope Members on the Government Benches are not intellectually challenged. Does the hon. Gentlem...

Graham Allen | 602 cc576-7 (Link to this contribution)

I know that the hon. Gentleman is an assiduous reader of my speeches, even more so than I am, and...

Lord Wharton of Yarm | 602 c577 (Link to this contribution)

It is important to find areas of agreement. Although on the issue of devolution the hon. Gentlema...

Graham Allen | 602 c577 (Link to this contribution)

I genuinely wish the Minister well in that. I am sure he has followed the debates in the Conserva...

Lord Wharton of Yarm | 602 cc577-8 (Link to this contribution)

It is always a pleasure to listen to the hon. Gentleman’s wise and considered words on devolution...

Graham Allen | 602 c578 (Link to this contribution)

I am always searching for consensus. In an ideal world, we should do this thoroughly and properly...

Graham Stringer | 602 cc578-9 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham North (Mr Allen), who makes t...

Graham Stringer | 602 c579 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry. I will be precise: the hon. Lady said there is no desire for elected mayors in the ci...

Alison Thewliss | 602 c579 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman may not be aware that the Scottish islands requested more powers from the Scot...

Graham Stringer | 602 cc579-580 (Link to this contribution)

I was making the opposite argument to the one made earlier by the hon. Lady. If Glasgow, Aberdeen...

Alison Thewliss | 602 c580 (Link to this contribution)

Is the hon. Gentleman aware of the exception to that argument? The Labour party in Scotland, as p...

Graham Stringer | 602 c580 (Link to this contribution)

I am sure the hon. Lady would agree that the Labour party brought in that system so that the SNP ...

Alison Thewliss | 602 c580 (Link to this contribution)

Local government in Scotland, not the Scottish Parliament.

Graham Stringer | 602 c580 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry. Yes, that is the one exception to my argument. In terms of local government in Scotla...

Graham Allen | 602 c581 (Link to this contribution)

Of course, the point about party political advantage is very strong in respect of the SNP, which ...

Graham Stringer | 602 c581 (Link to this contribution)

I accept that that is what my hon. Friend’s new clause says, but it would provide an opportunity ...

Andrew Jones | 602 c593 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

John Bercow | 602 c594 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Government amendments 62 to 66

Andrew Jones | 602 cc594-5 (Link to this contribution)

In the summer 2015 Budget, my right hon. Friend the Chancellor reaffirmed the Government’s commit...

John Redwood | 602 c595 (Link to this contribution)

It is excellent news that there will be more road and rail capacity between the northern cities, ...

Andrew Jones | 602 c595 (Link to this contribution)

We can boost rail capacity through a mixture of new lines and work to the existing network, along...

Jason McCartney | 602 c595 (Link to this contribution)

Like the Minister, I welcome the unpausing of the electrification of the trans-Pennine route, whi...

Andrew Jones | 602 c595 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is a vigorous campaigner for rail in the north of England, especially in his const...

Clive Betts | 602 c595 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister talks about the importance of trans-Pennine links, which currently are pretty awful....

Andrew Jones | 602 c595 (Link to this contribution)

I caution the hon. Gentleman: the length of new clauses and amendments is not necessarily related...

Clive Betts | 602 c596 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Minister explain again? What role will the body play in looking at a road tunnel under t...

Andrew Jones | 602 c596 (Link to this contribution)

I am coming to that later, so perhaps I will address the hon. Gentleman’s points then.

Andrew Turner | 602 c596 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham (John Redwood) talked about trains and railways. Wi...

Andrew Jones | 602 cc596-7 (Link to this contribution)

I am not the maritime Minister, so I am not in the best position to comment, but we are seeing hu...

Simon Hoare | 602 c598 (Link to this contribution)

What my hon. Friend is saying makes sense, with transport being used an economic growth driver. C...

Anne Main | 602 c598 (Link to this contribution)

It would useful if the Minister could veer off the A303, which I am not aware is part of this Bil...

Andrew Jones | 602 c598 (Link to this contribution)

The A303 is not part of the Bill, but the A303, the A30 and the A358 are critical schemes in the ...

Graham Stringer | 602 c598 (Link to this contribution)

The section of the new clause that is headed “102M General powers” is drawn incredibly widely. Ca...

Andrew Jones | 602 c598 (Link to this contribution)

The new bodies are intended to create a link between Whitehall and Westminster and the constituen...

John Redwood | 602 c598 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Minister give us a little more detail about how the powers of the Secretary of State for...

Andrew Jones | 602 c599 (Link to this contribution)

The Secretary of State will still be in charge of the national network. He will still be the fina...

Clive Betts | 602 c599 (Link to this contribution)

I am still not sure what role an STB will play. Will it be just an advisory body? Will it be just...

Andrew Jones | 602 cc599-600 (Link to this contribution)

STBs’ responsibilities will start with the development of plans for their areas, as the hon. Gent...

Steve Reed | 602 c600 (Link to this contribution)

It is welcome to hear the consensus for devolution from all parts of the House this afternoon, an...

Andrew Turner | 602 c600 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman listed three or four ways of getting around, but did not mention ferries. Wher...

Steve Reed | 602 c601 (Link to this contribution)

I am happy to add in any mode of transport that I inadvertently excluded from my list, and I am g...

Steve Reed | 602 c601 (Link to this contribution)

Has my hon. Friend thought of another mode of transport that I missed?

Graham Stringer | 602 c601 (Link to this contribution)

No. My hon. Friend mentioned buses. Does he share my surprise that we are discussing this Bill wh...

Steve Reed | 602 c601 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. Friend for making that point. I hope that the Government will hear it while they ...

John Redwood | 602 c601 (Link to this contribution)

If the STB in a given area were to promote a road improvement that covered two different council ...

Steve Reed | 602 cc601-2 (Link to this contribution)

That is a matter for the Government, but my view is that this should all be done through co-opera...

Graham Allen | 602 c602 (Link to this contribution)

Mrs Main, I understand that it is in order to talk about the other clauses remaining to the House...

Anne Main | 602 c602 (Link to this contribution)

I am reliably informed that new clause 29 is in the next group.

Anne Main | 602 c602 (Link to this contribution)

Does the Minister wish to come back in at this point?

Andrew Jones | 602 c602 (Link to this contribution)

indicated dissent.

Question put and agreed to.

New clause 34 accordingly read a Secon...

Steve Reed | 602 c603 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

Anne Main | 602 cc603-613 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

New clause 29—The Local Governmen...

Steve Reed | 602 c614 (Link to this contribution)

I understand that it is appropriate briefly to mention the issue of Sunday trading when talking a...

Anne Main | 602 c614 (Link to this contribution)

I suggest to the hon. Gentleman that the provision is not there and that we cannot debate what is...

Steve Reed | 602 c614 (Link to this contribution)

Absolutely, Mrs Main, although the Minister was courteous enough to respond to a point on this is...

Lord Wharton of Yarm | 602 c614 (Link to this contribution)

I am responsible for LEPs, and I recognise that there are some great LEPs and others that can be ...

Steve Reed | 602 cc614-6 (Link to this contribution)

I am not going to name individual LEPs at this stage in the debate. If the Minister talks to LEPs...

Robert Neill | 602 cc616-7 (Link to this contribution)

I commend the hon. Member for Croydon North (Mr Reed) on the sentiments of his speech, if not ent...

John Howell | 602 c617 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is talking specifically about London, but as the devolution deal goes through, wil...

Robert Neill | 602 c617 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes an entirely fair point, and I recognise his long experience in local governm...

Steve Reed | 602 c617 (Link to this contribution)

May I associate myself with the very welcome proposals being made by my fellow co-chair of the al...

Robert Neill | 602 cc617-9 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his support for the new clause. It is not intended to be ...

Graham Allen | 602 cc619-622 (Link to this contribution)

I want to talk about the very broad amendments that I have tabled. New clause 29 and new schedule...

John Stevenson | 602 cc620-3 (Link to this contribution)

I will say a few words about new clause 30. The Bill includes plenty of references to elected may...

Clive Betts | 602 cc623-4 (Link to this contribution)

I wish to raise two issues that the Government and the Committee will have to deal with at some p...

Steve Reed | 602 c624 (Link to this contribution)

As I understand it, the Local Government Association estimates that the Housing and Planning Bill...

Anne Main | 602 c624 (Link to this contribution)

Order. I think the hon. Gentleman was trying to make a fair point about devolution and taking bac...

Clive Betts | 602 cc624-5 (Link to this contribution)

I will try to get back on to the straight and narrow, Mrs Main.

My point is that we need a ...

David Burrowes | 602 c626 (Link to this contribution)

New clause 31 stands in my name and that of my hon. Friend the Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston). ...

Kevin Foster | 602 c626 (Link to this contribution)

I am interested to hear my hon. Friend’s speech. One of the main problems in my constituency is p...

David Burrowes | 602 c627 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a good point, and I hope he will support me in calling on the Government to ...

Kevin Foster | 602 c627 (Link to this contribution)

Might not one slight problem be the potential incentive to do it the other way around, meaning th...

David Burrowes | 602 cc627-630 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a good point, but the sad reality is that in all our communities we have an ...

Martin Vickers | 602 c630 (Link to this contribution)

Those of us with long local government experience never expected any Government to deliver devolu...

Edward Leigh | 602 c630 (Link to this contribution)

That is all very well, but in the case of a large rural county such as Lincolnshire, it would be ...

Martin Vickers | 602 c630 (Link to this contribution)

I see the logic of that, but my hon. Friend will know that in greater Lincolnshire the authoritie...

Martin Vickers | 602 c631 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, high commissioner for Lincolnshire.

When I was reading the amendments, I was struck by...

Lord Wharton of Yarm | 602 cc631-5 (Link to this contribution)

We have had an interesting and wide-ranging discussion on this group of amendments. I have listen...

Steve Reed | 602 c635 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with the Minister that this has been a good, interesting and productive debate. He says h...

Lord Wharton of Yarm | 602 c636 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move amendment 16, page 19, line 8, after “of” insert “, or made under,”

This amen...

Anne Main | 602 c636 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss clause 22 stand part.

Schedule 4 stand part.

...
Lord Wharton of Yarm | 602 cc636-640 (Link to this contribution)

Knowing as I do that hon. Members are familiar with the content and scope of the amendments and t...

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