UK Parliament / Open data

NHS (Charitable Trusts Etc.) Bill

Debate on bills on Friday, 6 November 2015, in the House of Commons, led by Wendy Morton. The answering member was Alistair Burt.
Motion that the House sit in private. Negatived on question. Second reading. Agreed to on question. Bill to be committed to a Public Bill Committee.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

601 cc1235-1289 

Session

2015-16

Legislative stage

Second reading

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber
NHS (Charitable Trusts Etc) Bill 2015-16
Wednesday, 24 June 2015
Bills
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

Wendy Morton | 601 c1235 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

Let me begin by thanking all the Me...

Alistair Burt | 601 c1235 (Link to this contribution)

Peter Pan and Wendy!


Show all contributions (157)
Wendy Morton | 601 cc1235-7 (Link to this contribution)

Indeed. I had often wondered why my mum and dad named me Wendy, and that was obviously the reason...

Simon Hoare | 601 c1237 (Link to this contribution)

I rise not as a ticking crocodile but to ask my hon. Friend to assure the House that notwithstand...

Wendy Morton | 601 c1237 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a useful point. The important point is that whereas the NHS charity can bene...

Kevin Foster | 601 c1237 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is making a great speech in support of her Bill. Does she agree that that very ind...

Wendy Morton | 601 cc1237-8 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a valid point. I shall explain that a little more later, but the Bill is abo...

Maggie Throup | 601 c1238 (Link to this contribution)

As I understand it, some NHS charities have already converted to independent status. Will my hon....

Wendy Morton | 601 c1238 (Link to this contribution)

I will come on to deal with some of those benefits later. Anyone would think my hon. Friend had r...

Kevin Foster | 601 c1238 (Link to this contribution)

Why was it necessary to bring a Bill before Parliament to deal with these issues and make these c...

Wendy Morton | 601 cc1238-9 (Link to this contribution)

An LRO was mentioned to me early on when I was doing my research on the Bill, but this Bill cover...

Lucy Allan | 601 c1239 (Link to this contribution)

If the Bill were not passed, what would be the implications for Great Ormond Street hospital?

...
Wendy Morton | 601 c1239 (Link to this contribution)

That is a very good question. Quite simply, the charity would not be able to complete the move to...

Antoinette Sandbach | 601 c1239 (Link to this contribution)

Earlier, my hon. Friend mentioned the Alder Hey Children’s Charity, which is the key leading char...

Wendy Morton | 601 cc1239-1240 (Link to this contribution)

When it comes to hospitals, we all have our own personal stories on which to draw and our own per...

Maggie Throup | 601 c1240 (Link to this contribution)

How much does the charity raise each year? Obviously, it does fantastic work, as we have been hea...

Wendy Morton | 601 c1240 (Link to this contribution)

In a nutshell, the figure is significant, and I will come on to that shortly.

The charity f...

Kevin Foster | 601 c1240 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is being incredibly generous with her time in allowing interventions. Will she cla...

Wendy Morton | 601 cc1240-1 (Link to this contribution)

The charity continues to receive royalties. In fact, there are many productions of “Peter Pan” ar...

Kit Malthouse | 601 c1241 (Link to this contribution)

I am very supportive of the Bill. Does my hon. Friend think that the move by hospital charities t...

Wendy Morton | 601 c1241 (Link to this contribution)

Let us hope so. Many artists and authors around the country have preferred charities to which the...

Alistair Burt | 601 c1241 (Link to this contribution)

Before we leave the Scottish dimension, may I say that my granny was born in Angus, fairly close ...

John Bercow | 601 c1241 (Link to this contribution)

Order. We are learning quite a lot about Members’ family circumstances, and it is very illuminati...

Wendy Morton | 601 c1241 (Link to this contribution)

That is the beauty of being in the Chamber on a Friday, Mr Speaker.

Simon Hoare | 601 c1241 (Link to this contribution)

Has my hon. Friend noticed the relief among Opposition Members that there is no one of Scottish h...

Wendy Morton | 601 cc1241-3 (Link to this contribution)

I have not, but I am grateful to my hon. Friend.

I have introduced the Bill to deal with th...

Keir Starmer | 601 c1243 (Link to this contribution)

I support the Bill and I am grateful to the hon. Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Wendy Morton) fo...

David Nuttall | 601 c1243 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. and learned Gentleman know why J.M. Barrie picked Great Ormond Street hospital, as ...

Keir Starmer | 601 cc1243-4 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for that intervention. I do not know, but I assume that J.M. Barrie picked that hos...

Simon Hoare | 601 c1244 (Link to this contribution)

Due to your indulgence, Mr Speaker, Members can now Google while listening to a debate. In answer...

Keir Starmer | 601 c1244 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that intervention, which saves me from having to look it ...

Anne Marie Morris | 601 cc1244-5 (Link to this contribution)

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Wendy Morton) on bringing her p...

John Bercow | 601 c1245 (Link to this contribution)

Order. Let me very gently say to the hon. Lady that I understand the natural temptation to look

Anne Marie Morris | 601 cc1246-7 (Link to this contribution)

I am appropriately reprimanded, Mr Speaker. I shall ensure that, in particular, I give you the fo...

Kevin Foster | 601 c1247 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is making a long and strong speech about the benefits of Great Ormond Street hospi...

Anne Marie Morris | 601 c1247 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes an entirely correct comment. He is absolutely right that Great Ormond Street...

Albert Owen | 601 c1248 (Link to this contribution)

The extra money going to Great Ormond Street hospital is well appreciated by people across the Un...

Anne Marie Morris | 601 c1248 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman raises a very important point about drugs. The Government are absolutely focus...

John Bercow | 601 c1248 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady has the floor, but I am sure that she will want to have some regard to the fact tha...

Anne Marie Morris | 601 c1248 (Link to this contribution)

Mr Speaker, this is such a fascinating subject that I want to ensure it gets the air time it dese...

Maggie Throup | 601 c1248 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that we must get things right not just because of the financial implica...

Anne Marie Morris | 601 cc1248-9 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a crucial point. Reputation is critical. The changes that we are making toda...

Maggie Throup | 601 c1249 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend has explained precisely why Great Ormond Street hospital needs extra charitable mo...

Anne Marie Morris | 601 c1249 (Link to this contribution)

As ever, my hon. Friend makes an important point. It is right that the money goes towards new, fa...

Anne Marie Morris | 601 c1250 (Link to this contribution)

Indeed. Many other items within the hospital commemorate Barrie’s donation. Those include a statu...

Mary Robinson | 601 cc1250-2 (Link to this contribution)

I, too, congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Wendy Morton) on successf...

Paul Flynn | 601 c1252 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady has twice mentioned the need for charities to be free from regulation and Governmen...

Mary Robinson | 601 c1252 (Link to this contribution)

It is absolutely right that the governance arrangements for charities, and any other body respons...

Lucy Allan | 601 cc1252-3 (Link to this contribution)

It is a privilege to follow the excellent speech by my hon. Friend the Member for Cheadle (Mary R...

Maggie Throup | 601 cc1253-4 (Link to this contribution)

I am delighted to contribute to today’s debate on such an important issue, and I congratulate my ...

Bob Stewart | 601 c1254 (Link to this contribution)

I have to declare an interest, as my wonderful daughter-in-law, Nicola Stewart, is a nurse at Gre...

Maggie Throup | 601 c1254 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. Friend, and I completely agree that every doctor and nurse, and every NHS worker ...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 601 c1254 (Link to this contribution)

Mr Barrie had better not cheer from the Gallery; if he did, he would be ruled out of order.

Maggie Throup | 601 cc1254-5 (Link to this contribution)

I bow to my hon. Friend’s greater knowledge of this place.

It is only right that every effo...

Marcus Fysh | 601 c1255 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in this debate. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Memb...

Kevin Foster | 601 c1255 (Link to this contribution)

I entirely agree with what my hon. Friend is saying. It is not just a question of the tactics tha...

Marcus Fysh | 601 c1256 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend has made a very good point.

The Bill will provide the flexibility, the indep...

Simon Hoare | 601 c1256 (Link to this contribution)

Much has been said about the importance of a work of literature with the status of the novel “Pet...

Simon Hoare | 601 c1256 (Link to this contribution)

At the very mention of Lucky Lad, I give way to my hon. Friend.

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 601 c1256 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is giving an excellent explanation of what the Bill would do. Ordinary charities a...

Simon Hoare | 601 c1256 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for clarifying the role of trustees. As a trustee of a charity my...

Paul Flynn | 601 c1257 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Simon Hoare | 601 c1257 (Link to this contribution)

With enormous, enormous pleasure, to waspishness I will give way.

Paul Flynn | 601 c1257 (Link to this contribution)

There are 5,000 leading charities in Britain, and there is great concern about the activities of ...

Simon Hoare | 601 c1257 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman has invited me to stray from the immediate purport of the Bill. Let me avail m...

Wendy Morton | 601 c1257 (Link to this contribution)

The Bill is purely about 16 NHS charities and their move to independence, and about Great Ormond ...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 601 c1257 (Link to this contribution)

Order. I have allowed a little laxity this morning so that Members could explore issues relating ...

Simon Hoare | 601 cc1257-8 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for your ruling, Madam Deputy Speaker—and I am drawing my remarks to a close.

Maggie Throup | 601 c1258 (Link to this contribution)

It is not just about the duplication of effort but about the fact that money that has been spent ...

Simon Hoare | 601 c1258 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is an energetic champion of deregulation and trying to cut away as much red tape a...

Kevin Foster | 601 cc1258-9 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to speak in the debate and to support the Second Reading of the Bill. Discussing...

Anne Marie Morris | 601 c1259 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that one of the benefits of this independence is that it encourages not...

Kevin Foster | 601 c1259 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Charities depend on the money and time donated. That might me...

Wendy Morton | 601 c1259 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that, under this new model, charities will be able to bring in a new bl...

Kevin Foster | 601 c1259 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. In my constituency, for example, we have many people over the...

Antoinette Sandbach | 601 c1259 (Link to this contribution)

The risk attached to the appointment by the Secretary of State is the perception that it might be...

Kevin Foster | 601 c1259 (Link to this contribution)

I could not have put it better myself. My hon. Friend is right that although the Secretary of Sta...

Kevin Foster | 601 c1260 (Link to this contribution)

Indeed. This is a bit like the reforms to school governors, where we have reduced the number of l...

Kevin Foster | 601 cc1260-1 (Link to this contribution)

I accept that at the moment a Lib Dem and an endangered species have something in common. I will ...

Jeremy Lefroy | 601 c1261 (Link to this contribution)

I rise in support of this Bill, which has been promoted by my hon. Friend the Member for Aldridge...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 601 cc1261-2 (Link to this contribution)

It is a great pleasure to rise in support of this Bill and in support of my hon. Friend the Membe...

Simon Hoare | 601 c1262 (Link to this contribution)

I asked my hon. Friend to give way just to give the House pause to recalibrate itself as it gets ...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 601 cc1262-3 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for making that point; occasionally there are innovations that ar...

Jeremy Lefroy | 601 c1263 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend shares my dislike of overweening Executive action. Does he agree that sometimes in...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 601 c1263 (Link to this contribution)

I have great sympathy with what my hon. Friend says; it is so important that we have enough time....

Bob Stewart | 601 c1263 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my great and hon. Friend, an advocate of the 16th century, for giving way. Does he consid...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 601 cc1263-4 (Link to this contribution)

Madam Deputy Speaker is giving me one of her looks. As much as I would like to discuss reform of ...

Antoinette Sandbach | 601 c1264 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend might like to know that examples of jobbery abound in Wales. It might be useful to...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 601 c1264 (Link to this contribution)

Order. I must remind the hon. Lady for the sake of good form—I appreciate that she has not been i...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 601 c1264 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes an absolutely brilliant and crucial point. We want to get away from jobbery ...

Paul Flynn | 601 c1264 (Link to this contribution)

There is a current example of grotesque jobbery in the appointment by the Prime Minister of the C...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 601 c1264 (Link to this contribution)

Order. I really have tried to give as much leeway as I can this morning to this debate, but I can...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 601 c1264 (Link to this contribution)

There was an urgent question on the matter, and I do not think that there is any more for me to s...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 601 c1264 (Link to this contribution)

I know. The Minister in his seat is looking appalled at that suggestion, but it is true. Many peo...

Kevin Foster | 601 c1265 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is bringing his usual fairy dust to this debate. Does he agree that this is about ...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 601 c1265 (Link to this contribution)

I am extremely grateful for that intervention, because that is exactly the point. It is one of th...

Wendy Morton | 601 c1265 (Link to this contribution)

The reason behind the Bill and for removing the Secretary of State’s powers to appoint trustees s...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 601 cc1265-7 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend really is a truly radical parliamentarian in the train of her predecessor, because...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 601 c1267 (Link to this contribution)

I give way to my fellow Garrick member.

Simon Hoare | 601 c1267 (Link to this contribution)

I hate to contradict my proposer to the club, but I think that A.A. Milne gave his royalties to t...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 601 c1267 (Link to this contribution)

I was confusing my authors of children’s literature. I got “Winnie-the-Pooh” right; I was just at...

Kit Malthouse | 601 c1267 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes an interesting point. I wonder whether he supports legislation that would au...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 601 c1268 (Link to this contribution)

That is an interesting point, but probably, no, I would not agree. Such an extension should happe...

Peter Dowd | 601 c1268 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that he is damaging his reputation talking this nonsense?

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 601 c1268 (Link to this contribution)

If I were talking nonsense, Madam Deputy Speaker would rule me out of order under Standing Orders...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 601 c1268 (Link to this contribution)

Order. For the avoidance of doubt, I do not need the hon. Gentleman’s help to know when nonsense ...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 601 c1268 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. That is a side concern, but it is something that everyone in the...

Albert Owen | 601 c1269 (Link to this contribution)

I apologise for missing the first 14 minutes of the hon. Gentleman’s short speech. He has discuss...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 601 c1269 (Link to this contribution)

Order. Sometimes it is difficult for the occupant of the Chair to work out whether an interventio...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 601 cc1269-1270 (Link to this contribution)

Madam Deputy Speaker, I have never sought to model myself on Nostradamus, so I am not looking int...

Antoinette Sandbach | 601 c1270 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for the opportunity to take part in the debate. I am pleased to follow my hon. Frie...

Kevin Foster | 601 c1270 (Link to this contribution)

It will be not just independence but the flexibility to bring in different skills and talents tha...

Antoinette Sandbach | 601 cc1270-1 (Link to this contribution)

I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. One important step being taken by Alder Hey is in ground-br...

Kit Malthouse | 601 c1271 (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps I should declare an interest. I was born in Alder Hey hospital and had a myringotomy ther...

Antoinette Sandbach | 601 cc1271-2 (Link to this contribution)

Indeed. My hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset made a similar point. It is important t...

Craig Williams | 601 c1272 (Link to this contribution)

My constituency has a number of hospices and charities—Velindre cancer centre and George Thomas h...

Antoinette Sandbach | 601 c1272 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising that matter. He will be aware of the extensive issues...

Albert Owen | 601 c1272 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady is right to point to Alder Hey’s excellent record. It covers north Wales and my con...

Antoinette Sandbach | 601 c1273 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising that point, because one issue with the service re...

Albert Owen | 601 c1273 (Link to this contribution)

The point I was making is that under English votes for English laws, Welsh Members of Parliament ...

Antoinette Sandbach | 601 c1273 (Link to this contribution)

I am so grateful to the hon. Gentleman for making that point, because health services that my con...

Kevin Foster | 601 c1273 (Link to this contribution)

It is very tempting to go down that path and discuss various issues relating to devolution, but I...

Antoinette Sandbach | 601 c1273 (Link to this contribution)

That is precisely why I support the Bill, and it is no doubt why my hon. Friend the Member for Al...

Antoinette Sandbach | 601 cc1273-4 (Link to this contribution)

I am afraid not, because I must make some progress.

Alder Hey hospital has been leading the...

George Howarth | 601 c1274 (Link to this contribution)

I just want to say what I would have said had the hon. Member for Eddisbury (Antoinette Sandbach)...

Jo Churchill | 601 cc1274-5 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Wendy Morton) for bringing forward thi...

Justin Madders | 601 c1275 (Link to this contribution)

I congratulate the hon. Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Wendy Morton) on introducing this Bill, w...

Alistair Burt | 601 cc1275-6 (Link to this contribution)

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Wendy Morton) on securing her p...

Kevin Foster | 601 c1276 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister says “his hospital”. He is obviously right that it is based in the constituency of t...

Alistair Burt | 601 c1276 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a point that I would have gone on to make and was emphasised by him and seve...

Maggie Throup | 601 c1277 (Link to this contribution)

Does my right hon. Friend agree that we are richer as a nation because of the unique combination ...

Alistair Burt | 601 c1277 (Link to this contribution)

Yes. I do not think I am trespassing on any party political ground in saying that we should recog...

Anne Marie Morris | 601 c1277 (Link to this contribution)

We have heard today about a great number of institutions that undertake such voluntary work. This...

Alistair Burt | 601 c1277 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes her point well. This is traditionally a time when people look very hard at w...

Kevin Foster | 601 c1278 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister is making an excellent speech, as predicted during my own speech. Does he agree that...

Alistair Burt | 601 c1278 (Link to this contribution)

It is about exactly that. In a world of never-ending resources, there would be no need to look fo...

Wendy Morton | 601 c1278 (Link to this contribution)

My Bill focuses on the 16 charities that are either moving to independence or reverting to corpor...

Alistair Burt | 601 c1279 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend neatly sums up her Bill, which I will now address, and reminds us of the work of s...

Anne Marie Morris | 601 c1279 (Link to this contribution)

One of the questions we have not touched on is how that transition will be made. Will the Ministe...

Alistair Burt | 601 cc1280-1 (Link to this contribution)

It will be. The procedure is very simple. Some of it is laid out in the Bill and some of it will ...

Anne Marie Morris | 601 c1281 (Link to this contribution)

I am delighted that the Minister has raised the issue of mental health, because what we achieve i...

Alistair Burt | 601 c1281 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a very important point about the community’s engagement and the way in which...

Kevin Foster | 601 c1281 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister is being exceptionally generous in giving way to colleagues. Given the rapidly agein...

Alistair Burt | 601 cc1281-5 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a significant point about the use of the health service and the relationship...

Kevin Foster | 601 c1282 (Link to this contribution)

There has been a National Audit Office report on Kids Company and I believe that the Public Admin...

Alistair Burt | 601 cc1282-8 (Link to this contribution)

That is absolutely right. The House will be pleased to know that I do not intend to go further do...

Wendy Morton | 601 c1288 (Link to this contribution)

I assure hon. Members that my remarks will be brief, and I thank everyone who has contributed to ...

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